Thanks for the apology, although I don't really think it was necessary. As long as you worked out whatever you feel need to be worked out between you and the other commenter, I sort of view it as not my problem. You're allowed to get upset in a conversation about _war_.
As to the rest of it, I always appreciate thinky-thoughts and self-awareness and the ultimate conclusion you reach (regarding your cultural heritage and your feelings about it) is both a good and interesting one.
However, and I'm not saying you did this (quite frankly, I'm not sure, so don't worry about that either, but just as you needed to write out your process above, I need to write out mine below), but this comes up over and over again in my journal (often, it seems, when people are apologizing for things I didn't think they needed to) so I'm just throwing it out there anyway: I have really different feelings about what RTD (or any creative) is obligated to care about. Creatives aren't required to feel the way I feel about a story/place/character. I see the "he didn't even care about Myfanwy" thing over and over again and my main reaction is "was he supposed to?" I've no problem with people saying that ultimately leads to a type of storytelling they don't like or that they feel it produces weaknesses/flaws in the work, but I have a hard time with people criticizing a creator because their/our perception of their emotional involvement in the world isn't what we have decided it should be.
As to Ianto's death -- Jack's narrative is about the tragedy of eternal life. Torchwood's narrative is that (someone said this in fanfic and I love it) in Torchwood "if you don't die young, you die weird" and sometimes it's both. Jack's lovers are going to die as a major plotpoint as long as he has lovers on the show. They are going to be young and go out in grisley ways as long as the plot makes them TW operatives (which since so much of the plot is "you can't have a RL in TW"). If Jack's omnisexuality is going to shown on the show, that means there's going to be a lot of dead young gay dudes. Are we in a cultural moment where that can still look like fridging to lots of people? Yes. Is that the intent? I don't think so. Do any of us truly have any way of knowing what goes on in RTD's head? Nope.
Look, I love watching fictional tragedy. Maybe RTD does too. And maybe he likes his fictional tragedy to look a little bit like his life. Which means when he kills off someone like Ianto, it's not homophobia or some evil plan with Fox or whatever. Maybe he just has buttons that are easily misread in 2010. That's my suspicion anyway.
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Date: 2010-01-30 04:51 pm (UTC)As to the rest of it, I always appreciate thinky-thoughts and self-awareness and the ultimate conclusion you reach (regarding your cultural heritage and your feelings about it) is both a good and interesting one.
However, and I'm not saying you did this (quite frankly, I'm not sure, so don't worry about that either, but just as you needed to write out your process above, I need to write out mine below), but this comes up over and over again in my journal (often, it seems, when people are apologizing for things I didn't think they needed to) so I'm just throwing it out there anyway: I have really different feelings about what RTD (or any creative) is obligated to care about. Creatives aren't required to feel the way I feel about a story/place/character. I see the "he didn't even care about Myfanwy" thing over and over again and my main reaction is "was he supposed to?" I've no problem with people saying that ultimately leads to a type of storytelling they don't like or that they feel it produces weaknesses/flaws in the work, but I have a hard time with people criticizing a creator because their/our perception of their emotional involvement in the world isn't what we have decided it should be.
As to Ianto's death -- Jack's narrative is about the tragedy of eternal life. Torchwood's narrative is that (someone said this in fanfic and I love it) in Torchwood "if you don't die young, you die weird" and sometimes it's both. Jack's lovers are going to die as a major plotpoint as long as he has lovers on the show. They are going to be young and go out in grisley ways as long as the plot makes them TW operatives (which since so much of the plot is "you can't have a RL in TW"). If Jack's omnisexuality is going to shown on the show, that means there's going to be a lot of dead young gay dudes. Are we in a cultural moment where that can still look like fridging to lots of people? Yes. Is that the intent? I don't think so. Do any of us truly have any way of knowing what goes on in RTD's head? Nope.
Look, I love watching fictional tragedy. Maybe RTD does too. And maybe he likes his fictional tragedy to look a little bit like his life. Which means when he kills off someone like Ianto, it's not homophobia or some evil plan with Fox or whatever. Maybe he just has buttons that are easily misread in 2010. That's my suspicion anyway.