Oh man, I swore I would never dip a toe into the wankpool of Seeing Red, but since this is actually a grow'd up conversation about it and not some grudge filled shipper wank of years past, I'm going to throw my two cents in.
I've only been able to stomach watching this episode once in my life. And if you push the writer (Marti Noxon's) motives for the rape metaphor aside, I actually don't have a problem with the bathroom scene.
I don't want to spoil anything since you are still exploring the series, but Spike as a vampire has done his share of horrible things throughout history as all vampires have...murder, torture, mayhem. As a vampire he has tried to kill Buffy and her friends. He's been the depraved monster. No one would bat an eye at this point if he tried to bite and turn (or murder) her. Had he tried to do that, I don't think we would have seen the regret and fear from him. This type of behavior would be hardwired and normal for a vampire. There's a realization on his face that he has finally crossed the line and there's no going back. And as his journey through the rest of season six progresses, I don't think he would have headed in the direction he did had it NOT been for the encounter in the bathroom. It is the catalyst for his character
If you look at the sequence where Buffy is invisible, she pretty much forces herself on him and no one bats an eye at Buffy molesting him. She's invisible, it's written off as comedy. And then there's The Pack where Xander also tries to rape her, yet it seems to be swept under the rug for the rest of the series. But it is Seeing Red that draws so much debate.
Throughout the season the writers keep jackhammering home that Spike is the abusive, bad boyfriend. But I think the writers had it wrong. Up until Seeing Red, the abusive partner was Buffy, and season six was about (whether the writers realized it or not)about heteronormative gender role reversal. She controls him sexually, she beats him, she controls him.
To compound things there is this implied consent through a lot of dubiously consented acts (the balcony sex, invisible sex, etc) where No often meant yes that the line between consent and nonconsent is rather fuzzy.
To me, the bathroom scene is this confusion coming to a head, and I feel quite sympathetic toward him. (Of course in reality I would zero sympathy for an attempted rapist regardless of the consequences.) It's about trying vie for control and failing. More importantly, it's about realizing that failure and accountability (at least for Spike.) Rape is an innately human weapon in this circumstance. The Spike the vampire would not have reacted so viscerally had he tried to bite or kill Buffy, but Spike the man was horrified by his actions. Thus this moment because a catalyst in the evolution of his character.
no subject
I've only been able to stomach watching this episode once in my life. And if you push the writer (Marti Noxon's) motives for the rape metaphor aside, I actually don't have a problem with the bathroom scene.
I don't want to spoil anything since you are still exploring the series, but Spike as a vampire has done his share of horrible things throughout history as all vampires have...murder, torture, mayhem. As a vampire he has tried to kill Buffy and her friends. He's been the depraved monster. No one would bat an eye at this point if he tried to bite and turn (or murder) her. Had he tried to do that, I don't think we would have seen the regret and fear from him. This type of behavior would be hardwired and normal for a vampire. There's a realization on his face that he has finally crossed the line and there's no going back. And as his journey through the rest of season six progresses, I don't think he would have headed in the direction he did had it NOT been for the encounter in the bathroom. It is the catalyst for his character
If you look at the sequence where Buffy is invisible, she pretty much forces herself on him and no one bats an eye at Buffy molesting him. She's invisible, it's written off as comedy. And then there's The Pack where Xander also tries to rape her, yet it seems to be swept under the rug for the rest of the series. But it is Seeing Red that draws so much debate.
Throughout the season the writers keep jackhammering home that Spike is the abusive, bad boyfriend. But I think the writers had it wrong. Up until Seeing Red, the abusive partner was Buffy, and season six was about (whether the writers realized it or not)about heteronormative gender role reversal. She controls him sexually, she beats him, she controls him.
To compound things there is this implied consent through a lot of dubiously consented acts (the balcony sex, invisible sex, etc) where No often meant yes that the line between consent and nonconsent is rather fuzzy.
To me, the bathroom scene is this confusion coming to a head, and I feel quite sympathetic toward him. (Of course in reality I would zero sympathy for an attempted rapist regardless of the consequences.) It's about trying vie for control and failing. More importantly, it's about realizing that failure and accountability (at least for Spike.) Rape is an innately human weapon in this circumstance. The Spike the vampire would not have reacted so viscerally had he tried to bite or kill Buffy, but Spike the man was horrified by his actions. Thus this moment because a catalyst in the evolution of his character.
At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.