sundries

[rm]

Brief, as it's Sunday, and you got a few links from me last night too. This included me jumping the gun on a thing. Sorry to get my over-excitedness on you. If you have any questions, please address it with me privately.

You do no want to know how many moths decided to come into our flat last night. Ugh ugh ugh ugh. Fuckers.

Yay, finished the edit for HackGender.

Hey, so a friend of mine is a CART provider, and has a cool blog about it, that's interesting from a few perspectives -- including disability access, being a sole proprietor in New York, and neat technology stuff. It occurs to me that with my readership, a large number of you may very well care about at least one of those three things. So hey, check it out.

Advocating for people with disabilities in Syria.

Black and (mostly Orthodox) Jewish.

Rounnd 1 of bidding in the help_pakistan auction ends today.

I still cannot find just a handful of links I find adequately discusses the many problems with the Beck rally: from intense racism to the apocalyptic delusions that rule of law has fled in the US and Marxist homosexuals are rampaging through the streets stealing everyone's guns.

Folks, voting for writerinadrawer Round 10 -- the round that decides the winner -- closes tonight. More votes are needed. Check it out. It's just three little stories and some opinions. You can do it!

So, the Buffy finale.... Really good. Satisfying. Calls back to things in the series without hitting you over the head with it, but also allowing you to remember the journey you've been on. Deeply, deeply aware of itself as a finale, and deeply deeply aware of its audience as knowing it is watching a finale. And, even still, when people die, there is still just a tiny moment of time to acknowledge and mourn that death (both Spike and Anya get that). It's also one of those finales that makes me stand up and cheer, because it has the right music, and the right vanquishing of the evil and all of that.

Which brings me to CoE and its reception. It wasn't written as a finale, although it was written as something that could exist as a finale if need be. And, I suspect, it was viewed by a lot of the audience, especially the American audience for who the structure of the way Torcwhood has aired is a much more radical departure than what they are used to, as something that was a finale. Which really, really, impacts reception. Because seriously? Our show is over and it ends in defeat? No wonder people are angry!

Of course, this also raises the question of how we place programs in time. I.e., did Joyce die when that episode first aired? Does she die every time that episode is watched? Is she dying, constantly, right now, over and over again? Extrapolate to Torchwood. See how that works?

I also felt, ultimately, that the finale of Buffy was more true to its aspirations of feminism than much of the series. All girls who are called arrive, and they skills are not just for survival, but for the perfectly ordinary, victorious living of their lives. Great power ultimately didn't turn Willow evil, but good and wise.

And the argument that "well, it was actually Spike who saved everyone and that's not feminist" doesn't hold for me; a man had to die to save people, but the girls saved people and got to keep on living. Ultimately, I think in a show like this, where you want all key characters involved in the end and to make sacrifices, you're sort of fucked in terms of reception -- at the end of the day, the women will always seem not enough, and rescued by men, no matter what you're trying to say (and you know I have serious problems in general with Whedon's feminist cred).

I almost don't want to read the comics, as I thought the ending was so cleanly and suitably executed, but I will eventually. In the, I have no time!!!! place that I'm in now, can someone just briefly tell me if there are any graveside/mourning type moments in there I need to find now as opposed to later for my D*C presentation?

Comments

[askeladden.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the shout out! The blog is fairly new, but I've got a bunch of posts planned for the near future, so I really appreciate the traffic boost.

[misch.livejournal.com]

Hey, so a friend of mine is a CART provider

That's pretty cool. I went to the Rochester Institute of Technology, and one of our colleges there is the National Technical Institute for the Deaf. I worked there as a student employee, and also did some notetaking in a few classes. Real-time captioning was kinda new at the time I was there, I know a couple people who were beta-testers for that service.

[firefly124.livejournal.com]

That's similar to my take on "Chosen." A massive chunk of the fandom freaked out that, given the rape metaphor had been pushed to the men who empowered the original Slayer having forced a foreign and demonic thing into her, ergo Buffy and Willow activating that power in every Potential was tantamount to a massive serial rape.

While I can see how they got there, I don't agree. That potential was there, now they have access to it without someone having to die. And the montage of all of them being activated makes me tear up every time. And I love that Willow got such a positive rush from it, after all the fear of what tapping into that power would do to her.

I'm about a year behind in actually reading the comics, so there may be something. However, up to the point I had read, no, not much on grief, at least not for anyone who died on the show. What they were doing, last I read anyway, was some really interesting stuff around the responsibilities that go with power, balance of power when you've gone and activated that many Slayers, and suchlike. With some seriously cracktastic side plots.

As for the allusion I made in your other post, it's not that big a thing, nor all that interesting once you've seen both finales, but it was interesting at the time watching people speculate that the people fleeing Sunnydale were all going to LA to bathe in Jasmine's glory and what Whedon & Co might do with that. I think the spark for that was that there were mild rumors of crossoveriness, which ultimately just referred to Angel's cameo.

[coldwater1010.livejournal.com]

Which brings me to CoE and its reception. It wasn't written as a finale, although it was written as something that could exist as a finale if need be. And, I suspect, it was viewed by a lot of the audience, especially the American audience for who the structure of the way Torcwhood has aired is a much more radical departure than what they are used to, as something that was a finale. Which really, really, impacts reception. Because seriously? Our show is over and it ends in defeat? No wonder people are angry!

I preferred it as a show finale than a season finale to be honest. Overall I'm not that crazy about COE because there are just too many things that don't work for me and the more I see it the less it works, but I could live with it as a finale for the show, espcially if I think of it as tragedy and Jack as moulded to be a tragic figure. They tend to end unhappily. I don't really see them handling the aftermath of S3 in a way that won't end up being unsatisfying for me and their track record doesn't fill me with hope and I know that'll ultimately colour my viewing of the new season and the characters and I'm not sure I want that.

I haven't seen the Buffy finale since it ended, but I remember disliking the season, but liking the finale and finding it fitting.

[brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com]

"at the end of the day, the women will always seem not enough, and rescued by men, no matter what you're trying to say"


Can you expand on this, please? I don't follow Whedon fandoms or feminist posts about Whedon, but I'm curious why people think that. (I also didn't take that man-saves-woman idea away from the finale, so I'm doubly puzzled.)

[citrinesunset.livejournal.com]

Re: COE: Actually, I liked COE a lot better when I thought it might be the finale. It wasn't until I learned that there was probably going to be another season that I started to dislike it more. I felt like, for the most part, COE was an appropriate finale and in my personal canon, that's what it was and anything that might take place afterward is more of a spin-off type thing a la the Buffy Season Eight comics.

I think it's unlikely that I'll read the Buffy comics. I considered it, but like you, I see the finale of Buffy as being really fitting. I thought it was a good close to the arc of the show, and while I'm fine with thinking of the characters moving on past that point, I'm not really that interested in reading about it. I'd rather leave it up to my imagination. Same with Torchwood: The New World. I don't really want to see what happens after what, to me, was the end.

[elisi]

So, the Buffy finale.... Really good. Satisfying.
\o/ You liked it!

And the argument that "well, it was actually Spike who saved everyone and that's not feminist" doesn't hold for me;
I think Spike's sacrifice is hugely important, because it shows another side of Buffy - the Buffy who's not just a warrior, but an inspiration. If you look at Spike's journey, he is in many ways Buffy's creation. He wanted to be good enough for her, which in the end led him to just wanting to be *good*. The reason he's there, saving the world, is because of her, and because she chose him. (She could have worn the amulet herself. Heck, Faith could have worn it. But Buffy chose *Spike*.)

And I must ruminate on your CoE thoughts re. finales, and am now curious as to what you'll make of the last episode of AtS.

I almost don't want to read the comics
Don't. Trust me. Stay far, far away. They're like the worst type of fic - retconning anything that doesn't fit, lazy characterisation, storyline with very little logic, and painfully anti-feminist in places (and I'm not sure the writers even noticed).

an someone just briefly tell me if there are any graveside/mourning type moments in there I need to find now as opposed to later for my D*C presentation?
Hmm. There is one moment, after one of the new Slayers introduced in s8 dies, but I'm not sure it's quite what you're after. I can explain in more detail if you like, but it's not hugely important.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

So, the Buffy finale.... Really good. Satisfying. Calls back to things in the series without hitting you over the head with it, but also allowing you to remember the journey you've been on.

I had mixed feelings about the Buffy finale. I absolutely loved it as the finale of the series (for all the reasons that you mention), but overall I found Season 7 to be incoherent and dull (are they fighting cave-vampires, the lame First Evil, the people who created the First Slayer, or what), and as the ending of that season, it worked no better.

[ladyofthelog.livejournal.com]

Re: comics: there's a graveside mourning moment at the end of the "Wolves at the Gate" arc, but I can't remember if that compilation is one of the ones Patty is borrowing from me. (However, if you need it, I have the CBR files.) Also, significant but not major character death. Fair warning: the comics are BATSHIT.

All of my problems with feminism and the finale have to do with the issue of consent. As the comics make clear, the girls in the house are not all of the Slayers in the world. They make a choice for people who are not all there. We also don't ever actually see them make that choice; the camera cuts away at that point. It's really uncomfortable when you consider what we found out just a few episodes ago, that the First Slayer was made by men who placed a demon inside her.

Spike saving the day is fine by me. He was all pretty and glowy. :)


ETA: Oh yeah, issue #5 - "The Chain" - is all about death and mourning. You absolutely need to read that. Patty has it.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

I am increasingly uncertain about what to do in the face of the Tea Party movement, possibly because I'm not some kind of domestic terrorist out to deprive conservatives of their civil liberties. This upsets and depresses me. I feel like I must be doing something wrong.

Also, like you, I'm having a lot of trouble putting the Beck thing to words.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

re: buffy! YAY YOU MADE IT! glad you liked it, i love the buffy finale (but omg when you get to the angel finale... srsly, that is my FAVORITE series finale of anything ever, you'll see)

i never put much stock into the "is it feminist or not" argument about buffy - it just was what it was, none of the characters were perfect, and none of them needed to be

i think with CoE, for me anyway, it was less about the actual series, and more about how it was marketed and advertised (to the "fandom" portion of the audience) which i don't feel like going into b/c it's still this scabby wound that's best not picked at, you know? HOWEVER, i still like CoE, or certain elements of it, but it's never going to be perfect for me

dude, s5 of angel is sooooo torchwoody!

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure that the Buffy finale and CoE are really all that comparable regardless of whether or not one viewed CoE as the ultimate Torchwood finale, simply because the ensemble cast of Buffy was so much broader. Quite aside from the victory/defeat dichotomy, Buffy viewers has many different characters they could identify with, and all of them had been developed in interesting and complex ways. It's very unlikely that viewers watching the end of Buffy would be left with NO character they could identify with, even if their favourite had died, and also, if their favourite did die, there would still be a whole heap of episodes for them to look back on.

With CoE, on the other hand, with the team reduced to three people -- the audience doesn't have those sorts of options. If you're lucky enough to identify with Jack or Gwen, that's great, but for those of us who can't (which is not to fault Jack or Gwen as characters, but they are rather inaccessible to many of us), there isn't really anywhere to go -- the entire show shuts down. With the Buffy finale, I felt that we were left with a living world, with a living mythology that I could still inhabit. But after CoE I was left with a show that I couldn't inhabit any longer, at least not in the deeply personal way that I had done before. For me, there's no getting past the fact that Ianto's story ended in defeat, regardless of what comes after.

Having said that, in a structural sense, I think that in a structural sense, CoE is probably more comparable to the S3 finale of Buffy, insofar as it represents the destruction of the structured environment that had given shape to the early part of the show. But the S3 Buffy finale still had that broad range of characters to relate to (and from what I recall, it didn't kill off anyone major), so it didn't risk shutting people out of the show like CoE did.

[hoyland54.livejournal.com]

Argh... there's something I want to say about Angel, but I can't for fear of epic spoilers.

I never really understood the choice of Spike to save the universe in the Buffy finale. Buffy dying to save the world feels like it is how Buffy should end. But instead Spike does. It does neatly close the Spike redemption arc, but it feels like it completely undermines Buffy as a hero. On the other hand, maybe that's the point. Buffy doesn't really want to be the Slayer, and she looks for a way out more than once--why should she have to die to save the world, if Spike's willing to do it?

[ravenskye8.livejournal.com]

The Buffy comics seem to cut in some time after the end of Season 7... so, by then the psychological hangover from the events of the finale is a long-past memory...

That being said - some of the characters seem to have lingering issues with past events, and for some, it's like it never happened...

The "Season 8" comics are very uneven...

I really can't say whether or not you need to read ahead for your presentation or not, because I don't know how you want to define "mourning"... There are lots of places where individual characters have "moments" - e.g. Xander remembering Anya - but it's not a theme or plot arc at all... what's there are offhand comments or references to "off camera action" that the reader is not (yet?) privy to.

[browneyedgirl65.livejournal.com]

By the way, you have seen this, yes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwM3GvaTRM

(Buffy/Twilight remix; if you haven't, you simply must...)