rm | something I am pondering

something I am pondering

In the wake of the reaction to some of my really good LJ Idol stuff, and a realization I've had about a unifying theme in my work, I am currently considering applying to MFA programs.

Well, not exactly.

I am currently considering applying to the CUNY non-fiction MFA program, because it's local, I think I can get in, and I can afford it.

Pro's?
- having more than a damn BA
- specifically, being qualified enough to teach writing classes, good for the non 9-to-5'ers life (I want to get rid of the Germans).
- Being forced to write
- Gaining structure to what is now at least a moderately structured idea for the non-fiction book people have been trying to get me to write for years.
- Some small credential to help in the publishing game.

Con's?
- Dealing with a school, especially a city school, will make me crazy. I will have to meet obligations I find idiotic and insulting.
- Good-bye free time.
- $$
- Application process: irksome
- Okay, it's a short list, but I can't really emphasize enough how easily annoyed I am.

Issues?
- Writing samples. I could clean up that thing about why I went to Australia and IT WOULD ROCK, but I am afraid the committee would also be all "oh, Jesus fuck, more sex work, SHUT UP."
- I have several great people to ask for recommendations. I feel uncomfortable asking all of them.
- Like Chinese food, this may just seem like a good idea before it actually shows up.

So now you know.

ETA: Having just looked at my transcript, it seems exceedingly unlikely I could possibly be admitted to the program, with an appallingly low GPA both overall and in my major and no real trend of improvement over 4 years. Yup, what I did form 1990 - 1994 DETERMINES ALL. Hey, at least I have a bazillion other careers.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I think you should do it. And I would submit your LJ Idol pieces, rather than the NIDA piece (having never even seen it) because if I were on an admissions committee I'd take you on the Tommy Makem story alone.

I've contemplated an MFA at various times at well (most notably right after college, and thank god *that* didn't work out), but never quite got there. I guess, for now, fandom is the writing workshop I need. It certainly is better than some I've actually paid for, over the years.

There are aspects of it that will make you crazy and/or want to stab people, true, but I think at the end you will be glad you did it. You may also wish to check into the Columbia MFA program, and see if it could be bent to your will. (I know, more $$$, but they might have money available, you never know . . .)

And, finally, there was an article in the Atlantic relatively recently (the fiction issue, maybe?) about different MFA programs, which did touch on the NYC programs, and would probably be worth reading.

OH yeah, the Tommy Makem piece. You've seen the NIDA piece -- it was the sexual ethics LJ entry. I have to send two anyway, but I was thinking that one of them would be about the buttons on the maestro's fencing jacket.

The "problem" with the Chieftan's piece is that it's the one thing I have sitting around that isn't in the frame of the book idea, which is about rigor.

does it have to be, as an application piece? I think it highlights your uncanny ability to make the ordinary, extraordinary, and vice versa.

ahh, ok. I liked that one, and the one about the buttons, as well.

also, my knee-jerk response to the rigor thing is: the hell it isn't.

Irish dance is all *about* rigor, and preciseness, and being able to hit the forms and patterns. there was magic in your moment, too, and that's what carries the piece, but there is rigor also.

I agree; go for it.

MFA programs are notorious for having an absolute disdain for "genre fiction"...

I'd be applying for non-fiction. I'm very neurotic about my novel because it's so personal (although not about me at all, which is sort of an odd dichotomy) and don't think I could work on it in an academic context.

- Like Chinese food, this may just seem like a good idea before it actually shows up.
lol

I love how you never limit your life to one adventure. Last night I got home from work, did laundry, made a grocery list, went to the store, came home, made dinner and when I was done eating it was 12:30.

I don't know how you manage to have a relationship, take care of cleaning and such, and devote time to your reading, writing, and other interests. Do you get enough sleep? I want pointers!

I think she doesn't need sleep.

I think you're ridiculous. My biggest secret angst is that Baz Luhrmann claims to be able to function on four hours of sleep a night and I can barely get by on 8. It depresses the fuck out of me.

I think this is a fantastic idea. It can only hone your already excellent writing skills, get you mixing in with even more folks who love writing, get you important contacts in the field, and move you further towards one of your dreams.

And I love "Like Chinese food, this may just seem like a good idea before it actually shows up."
I laughed until I spewed.

You have an unusual voice and a gift for structure, and that already puts you far ahead of many people. Also you clearly have drive, and MFA programs love the idea that their graduates will bring them glory later.

Is it a regular two-year program, and do you feel like dealing with all the bullshit workshopping entails? I don't mean your work. I mean other people.

Other People are definitely one of the "this might be a bad idea" things.

I also worry about the phenomena where I have to endure people telling me I'm an idiot because the idea I am expressing is more complicated than their tiny little brains can handle. Not that my work doesn't need lots of tearing apart and cleaning up in places, I just feel like the average person will tend to latch onto something totally irrelevant and I'll just have to smile and nod.

They won't tell you you're an idiot, but they may not "get it." However that's a hazard of any workshop, especially if you're writing anything out of the realm of generic experience.

The quality of the student body also will affect the quality of your workshopping. If you can find even two or three people who get you, you're doing well.

Who's the nonfiction faculty at CUNY? I am wary of a lot of new nonfiction programs, they are springing up everywhere and are largely untested.

http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/creativewriting/who.shtml

I feel decent about them because I feel like they would get some of my interests and experience (there seems to be thematic work about loss as well as culture and class, and a recognition that you can be both a fiction writer and a non-fiction writer).

Oh you are fine. And the director is Australian!

Yes! Hunter has a section for academic work done outside of the US on its application. I am debating including the NIDA stuff. It doesn't seem directly relevant, but I suppose I can talk about what being a storyteller means in the personal statement.

I also have to do a 500 word project proposal that they only require of memoir students.

Is it one of those things that you think you'd look back and rather have done, icky bits and all? If so, it's probably worth doing.

Coincidentally, I'm applying to FIT's Toy Design program for next fall. Going back to school is what all the cool kids are doing! Or all the geeky kids, I dunno.

P.S. Looks like returning to fencing will be postponed until Feb. or late Jan.

Would this mean transitioning away from acting? Been there, done that, moving on?

Nope. Lots of the actors I admire are also professional and at times acclaimed writers. I tell stories. Always have. Always will.

I think it's a great idea.

I think it's a great step in where you want your life to be, go for it.

re the ETA:

Apply anyway. Seriously. You have DONE THINGS since then, many things, that speak to competence and ability handle an academic workload on the graduate level.

Also, when I completely failed to get into any MFA programs out of college (when my career plan was: Be A Writer), one of my professors consoled me with this: Writers are made, not born. You have to live a little. I made the appropriate listening noises and snuffled off to lick my wounds.

(I also stopped writing for almost ten years. Fandom brought it back, and made it *better*. It helps, also, that I now have real stories to tell, which I didn't, so much, at 22.)

Anyway, my point is, you have, by any measure, done the living, and you have stories to tell. If the CUNY people are hung up on your *GPA*, of all things, and ignore life experience, work experience, your actual writing ability, etc, then, well, fuck them right in the ear. And, also, they're doing it wrong.

The short comment (that doesn't get wrapped up in my own rather prickly feelings about writing classes and my own indecision about grad school - including which program to enter) is: have you thought of a one year, low-residency program?

I think a masters can never be a bad thing to have, but if you really are worried about it interfering with your writing, it's not worth it. The writing is the most important. And you can get contacts at plenty of places, not just MFA programs.

I wouldn't worry overmuch about your GPA, either. It's important, sure, but so are test scores and mostly writing ability. I mean if you have something like a 1.4, that might be cause for trouble, but otherwise? I don't think it will have more weight than your writing sample.

It was a 2.76.

And they only require the GRE by matriculation. It's not part of the decision process.

Even so, you've done a *lot* since that time, and I think it would be rather ridiculous for them to count a GPA from that long ago against you overmuch, in light of your resume and publishing credits. A three book deal, after all, is probably a lot more than many of their applicants have. And if that doesn't prove you can handle the work, I don't know what would.

True. The book is so entirely irrelevant, but clearly, I can get stuff done.

God, does this mean I'm supposed to ask my publisher for a recommendation? How utterly absurd as they are probably the least qualified to speak to what I can really do with words.

I'm not sure why it would be irrelevant. Is it that unrelated to the non-fiction this program covers?

I don't think it means you'd have to ask your publisher for a recommendation. Although, s/he could at least comment on, you know, how well you worked within a one month deadline which shows you can do stuff on time.

Yeah, I just think it would be weird to have a publisher and not have a rec from them.

Well, it's a personal memoir program. As near and dear as Severus et al are to my heart -- that's not something the publisher has seen or knows about or really anything from my life.

That's true. Yeah, you could talk it over with the publisher and sort of discuss maybe what the program is like and what a letter of rec for it would need, perhaps. I have done this with professors when I applied to work at the Actor's Theatre.

I somehow missed, I guess, that this was a memoir program. That totally makes sense now! Though, the fact you've been published with an impressive book deal (even if it isn't a memoir) reflects very positively on you. AND it shows that you can do lots of different kinds of nonfiction writing. I can't see how that would be a liability. I fully intend to put down my fiction and poetry pubs as well as my journalism stuff if I ever apply for an MA in journalism. I just wouldn't weigh the application overly heavy towards poetry.

Cent #1 - Your undergrad years are far enough in the past that your GPA won't matter for most admissions committees. In a writing program the sample is the most important thing.

Cent #2 - An MFA is a nice thing to have and all, and I have experienced "instant credibility" for having one, but they are notoriously bad experiences. Many people I know who went to writing MFAs absolutely hated them (including myself). Many of my classmates stopped writing. I know a woman from one of the most prestigious writing programs in the country who said that it was the worst experience of her life (she is a working writer).
If there is any way at all, talk to current students in the programs you're looking at.

And the interest:

I would definitely look into low residency programs as an option. I know a woman who teaches at one and have met some of her students. They seem happy with and happy about their program, and none of them are right out of undergrad.

Also, since you're looking at non-fiction, have you considered an MA in a subject that would feed your writing? If you looked at a cultural studies program you could do work on fandom (or anything really) and probably still take the writing workshop or work with the writing teacher from the MFA program.

And also, in the grand scheme of things having a book is a lot more impressive than having an MFA.

Low Residency would be disruptive to my life in a way that freaks me out. I don't like being away from home, and my travel really needs to be rationed for both book promotion and fencing.

Also, considering I am looking at a memoir program, I don't think my book is of any relevance for credibility whatsoever.

Aigh! I keep mentioning how you're disturbingly similar to an ex of mine (this is not meant as a criticism--we are still good friends), and the MFA thing is yet another way. She got her MFA later in life as well--35 or 36, I think it was?

As for whether it's "worth it"--it seems to depend on what you want out of it. She wanted to try to pursue filmmaking. And she got a chance to. But it didn't help her transition into an actual film career (she's still a teacher, even after the MFA). But she had the experience, and through that, got the chance to make a short film and win a few awards, and for her, that itself made it worth it, even if it didn't lead to a career transition.

Go ahead and apply anyway... transcripts have less meaning for non traditional (that's us, babe) older students. They will probably be looking more at your personal statement, writing sample and life experiences. Certainly was true in my case!
If they accept you, you have options.
If they don't (and sooo their loss) you're in the same place you are now.

When I decided to go back to school, I didn't think I had a chance in hell because of my GPA (about a 2.5.) But my boss pushed me to do it and I got my acceptance letter in about two weeks flat.

The reason they took me was because I had taken time off, lived a little, worked very hard and had a damn good admissions essay. I stood out from the average 22-year-old dropout and 17-year-old HS senior.

My point is you will stand out because you've done things, accomplished a lot and have a killer resume. Your writing isn't like the gazillions of 'writers' who fit every cliche in the book.

Go for it. And yes, you'll have to put up with a lot of moronic Other People who will make you want to stab your eyes with a rusty shrimp fork, but those Other People will also provide you with even more writing material.

Re: the ETA

I don't think this would be as damning as it seems. I found personally that they look at far different things for non-traditional adult students.

I am going to ditto the point about low GPA not being an obstacle. I have actually sat on admissions committees and GPAs for students returning after some time in the REAL world is not as much an issue. I would not let that stp your application process.

Hm. MAAAAYBE you wouldn't be admitted, but maybe if you took a core of undergrad writing/English classes and assembled a STUNNING portfolio you could. If you really want to get your Master's, I'd recommend making friends with an advisor and/or a writing teacher at the school and going for it. Having someone in your corner when tackling the application process--someone who's an "insider"--makes all the difference.

And I am certain your portfolie WOULD be stunning :-) Good luck if this is the path you decide to take!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

something I am pondering

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My Two Cents (plus interest)

Re: My Two Cents (plus interest)

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What the hey..

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