Doctor Who, series 1

[rm]

The Sliveen or however they are spelled are really the most irksomely boring villains ever. The return of them though in the episode about the Rift surfboard had a lot of nice acting in it and a decent plot. Certainly, lots of explanations of useful stuff (often clunky) and some amazing character insights.

And then there is The Game Station and The Parting of the Ways. These episodes upset me deeply, despite not being as good as The Empty Child arc. The Daleks are scary by the sheer virtue of speaking at the most aggravating pitch/tone in the universe. The Doctor asking the Dalek emperor if he would be his highest angel was downright chilling, but again leads me to ask -- what's with the Christian mythology in Doctor Who and hey, what's with the Gnosticism in SF/F in general (a source of endless fascination to me and a reminder that _someone_ needs to return my Milton to me)?

Anyway, my suppositions about Jack figuring out he is immortal (which apparently doesn't happen the way The Parting of the Ways left me thinking it happens) led me to annoy redstapler with questions which led me to the Doctor Who wiki, which led me to the fairly common theory that Jack may be the Face of Boe which led me to writing melancholy Face of Boe fic.

In all these bad effects, clunky explanations and cheesy bits of humour there are some deeply, deeply strange, unsettling, sad and even slightly profound things going on. What a weird show.

Comments

[redstapler.livejournal.com]

Did you use my theory about how he becomes the FoB?

(I'm happy if you did--I'll probably never get around to writing it.)

[rm.livejournal.com]

It's vague. The whole thing is vague, since it's about a mind with too much stuff in it. I'm hoping to have it together enough to post tonight.

[fleur.livejournal.com]

I didn't care for the slitheen either .. the ongoing "fart joke" is not at all my kind of humor and brought the whole thing down.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

The slitheen annoyed me too, but I did like Boomtown mostly for the discussion of the moral ambiguities of the Doctor's interventions.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

The Christian Mythology in Doctor Who seems to be a Russel T. Davies thing which is interesting considering he's an atheist.

What I found particularly interesting in Parting of the Ways was that the Doctor actually lost his nerve. This isn't really a surprise when you take into account that during the course of this episode, he comes to realize that whatever he did in the Time War was a futile gesture. In essence, he killed his own people for nothing.

Eccleston was fantastic in the final episode. While I hated to see him go, I thought he went in style.

As for Jack, Torchwood hadn't even been conceived yet when this season ended. Or if it had, it was only in the embryonic stages. I don't know if they decided he was immortal then and there or if that came later, but either way, I thought his speech to the rest of the game station was his finest hour this season.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It's so nice when the actors they get to do those "leader of men" speeches can actually do them. Because man, many a movie has been ruined by a speech like that from an actor who can't sell me on their ability to have scale.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

I was also quite impressed because prior to season 1 Dr. Who, I'd never seen an openly bisexual/homosexual character play an action hero.

It was very refreshing to see.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Good point. I'm trying to think if I have, but I guess I haven't, although I've read some books that come close.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

It jumped out to me because I've always noticed that whenever someone wants to include a gay character in a show like this, that character either tends only be male if he fits an effete gay stereotype. Hence my strong appreciation of Jack. (that and I just like John Barrowman)

[rm.livejournal.com]

But at the same time we don't have Jack spending lots of energy on trying to be "straight acting" or "not gay" -- he is what he is, and one of the things I like about the character is how much he is of the culture (at least as we perceive it, I suppose it's a moot issue for him, but to get into that more would involve my having to deal with the timeline from hell) without being a victim of the self-ghettoizing of it.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

My only regret so far is that Jack has had no occasion to sing. Maybe if there's a Season 3 of Torchwood, he and the crew can go to a karaoke bar that has a lot of Cole Porter.

[rm.livejournal.com]

OH my god. We were totally discussing this at Dances of Vice. The guy who plays Ianto also has a voice and a half and we were all saying that we _need_ a Torchwood: The Musical episode.

[blackbird-song.livejournal.com]

Jumping in to say that Kai Owen, GDL and James Marsters have all said they'd love to do such a thing, as well. I really hope this happens!

Catherine

[rm.livejournal.com]

OH excellent. It would so totally rock. It would be crazy not to use all that talent.

[blackbird-song.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't it? It would be the best piece of crack ever to hit the small screen. They could have the weevils droning in the background for pathos in a gloomy ballad.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

James Marsters would be great for such an episode too, as would Billie Piper. May as well throw Tennant in there too.

Then would come the Jell-O wrestling episode. ;-)

[fleur.livejournal.com]

On the DVD extras he does "Anything Goes"!!

The Musical would be SO great.

[rm.livejournal.com]

And that answers the question of whether I need to Netflix the DVD extras. It's also slightly weird, as I've been walking around singing that song for no reason for days (i mean, granted, I'm always walking around singing something).

[fleur.livejournal.com]

It's from the episode "Captain Jack Harkness". Makes sense, they were already in a period nightclub as it was, he might as well do a little ditty.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha. Fucking awesome.

[fleur.livejournal.com]

It's really fun. They *really* filmed it, too, it looks like a legitimate scene, not just 'point the camera at him, it'll be funny'.

[weirdquark]

Just when I think my love for Captain Jack Harkness cannot increase...

[fleur.livejournal.com]

Here ya go:

http://www.johnbarrowman.com/recordings/recordingsindex.html

[fleur.livejournal.com]

Actually, Davies came up with Torchwood years and years ago; it just became a spinoff of DW after DW became hot. He's wanted to do it for a long time.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

True, but I think the ImmortalJack came later. Ah, hard to know.

[fleur.livejournal.com]

Aaah, good point, good point.

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

a source of endless fascination to me and a reminder that _someone_ needs to return my Milton to me

yep, you can have it back now that I am done with that paper. thanks!! :-)
also your cape! and the stop-gap dragon!

[rm.livejournal.com]

Oh my god. I forgot about that. Like, all of that. In a narrative scale way.

This is where I ask you if you exist again and you tell me not really, ne?

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

Indeed, my existence continues to be debatable (and forgettable, apparently!) *g*

Actually, I think I'm back.

Maybe.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Why forgettable? Are you sending me emails I'm not getting again?

Oh, wait, just parsed. Dude -- I blocked out the paaaaaain. THe lizard probably gets more air at your place anyway.

And yeah. Every time I think I have a breather -- haha, no!

[backwards7.livejournal.com]

Doctor Who has always been a show aimed at children, but which can also be enjoyed by adults. I think this is what accounts for unevenness in tone between episodes and the sometimes exposition-heavy dialogue. I thought that the second Slitheen episode was rather poignant and fit well into the overlying theme of redemption that characterises the first season.

[blackbird-song.livejournal.com]

Edit: On the Slitheen front, I enjoyed watching Boom Town for the interactions between Eccleston and Annette Badland. I especially loved their timing in the restaurant scene. That said, I thought that her talent was largely wasted on a villain that should have been conceived much better.

The Daleks are scary by the sheer virtue of speaking at the most aggravating pitch/tone in the universe.

Ne'er a truer word were spoke! And I really do wish that the Sci-Fi script-writers would look elsewhere for their mysticism, even though the story arc of the Dalek emperor and his minions was a rather nice swipe at theocracy in its own Whovian, ham-fisted way.

The thought of Jack as the Face of Boe has always been so deeply fascinating and disturbing to me that I won't be able to go there as a fic writer until my schedule calms a bit once concert season is over. I'm looking forward greatly to reading your story, whenever it's posted, because I haven't seen anything written about this yet, other than the occasional snippet.

Catherine

[phaenix-ash.livejournal.com]

it's funny that i only just saw these this past week and it was my introduction to Cpt Jack. i've since watched ep. 1 and 2 of TW and...yeah. there is no going back. i'm smitten.

anyway - the angel line got me as well. the "give me this one" in the empty child arc too. i think christopher eccleston is a brilliant Doctor, one of the best. rose in the the parting of ways was stunning. i've heard that she was known in the UK as a one-hit-wonder pop artist and lots of people thought they were insane to cast her as the companion.

if i remember right, you didn't watch the earlier incarnations of DW? i remember tom baker as the Doctor vividly and had nightmares about the daleks as a kid. seeing a high(er) budget version of the daleks was downright terrifying for me.

i think the christian/gnosticsim angle is purely cultural - i've noticed similar trends in all the british SF/F that i read/watch. i think they just find lots of fodder there in ways that make it weirdly accessible for more people.

you think those are clunky effects? you should've seen the old versions where you could see the sets wobbling. it's part of the show's charm, the low budget cheese factor ;)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I never watched the old DW because the effects annoyed me too much. Also, I never liked children's programming even when I was a child so from what I've been given to understand it would have grated on me in that context too. Amusingly, the pinball machine I can most annihilate is the old Doctor Who machine that I used to play at a pizza parlor in suburban Maryland.

Rose was amazing. I'm surprised how smitten and charmed with her I am. And that whole episode had to be one long bad actor day for her, so I'm pretty impressed.

And Jack, Jack! I thought this was going to be my character to lust after not identify with, and that is so proving to not be the case. Interesting to like the gregarious handsome character for a change.

[coyotegoth.livejournal.com]

Wow, I really do need to check this out. (I've been fascinated by Daleks ever since finding out that they were nearly designed by Ridley Scott.)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Wow, I bet if Ridley Scott had designed them they wouldn't look like upside down trashcans with pingpong balls and a plunger glued to them.

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

I dislike the Slitheen; I do, however, find the exchanges between her and the Doctor to be fascinating in that episode.

"Parting of the Ways" is a little too Buffy for me to like it completely; and yet the emotion behind that kiss felt pretty much perfect to me.

And Jack - oh, the way Jack kisses them both..

[rm.livejournal.com]

What's interesting to me is Jack's relationship with cowardice. He mentions it in this episode, and it's fascinating to me that in the one moment he feels he's overcome it he winds up with this immortality (more or less) situation, and then we see him enact his cowardice in a million other ways over and over and over again in the subsequent timeline. In part because you have to wonder, if is it possible to be brave if you can't die? And if so, so that mean that you are brave by sheer virtue of being forced to endure? Fucked up questions that.

And yeah, that Nine/Rose kiss felt right to me too. I mean, it wasn't really about Rose, which is why it worked for me. I felt like it was the closest thing that Nine had experienced to his people being alive and all that since they weren't.

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

It's funny - I think the stories try to make Rose be the focus, with her harem of boys, the bits of Torchwood I've seen make the Doctor Jack's focus, and yet for that moment I see it as being this fairly perfect balance of equal honest affection for and between all.

I cheered at the end of the kiss scene.

I don't know enough of Torchwood to get all of Jack's cowardice issues, and I don't know what I think about the Face of Boe stuff yet. I...sorta hope they don't actually go that route, because it feels so achingly lonely for Jack.

And yet, if he's truly immortal, that's already his fate.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Well I think Jack's already lonely. I think Jack was lonely from the second he let go of his brother's hand -- if not sooner. I really think it's a constitutional thing with him, and life has just dealt him a hand that makes it make sense (of course, I would read it this way, so take that with what you know of me).

I do think the Jack/Nine/Rose relationship seemed very balanced and even and that Jack and Nine's issues about Mickey are pretty much like "this will fuck up the balance" -- I thought Boom Town had interesting stuff going on because you see Rose on her fraught date with Mickey and Nine out with the Slitheen and Jack fucking around with the Tardis and they're all _fine_ and occupied and it's just a really nice funny little thing. It also, to me, helps explain why Jack winds up immortal as a result of the Bad Wolf situation -- there were three dates that night, and the only one that went at all decently was Jack's with the Tardis. It liked him. And that's the parting gift. I think Rose's will to save him wouldn't have been enough alone.

As to Jack's cowardice (which is discussed a lot in DW but not in TW, although it's just as present), I think he's aware that he can't be a constant in people's lives, but because of that runs away much fucking sooner than he has to because he's terrified. And it's a picture that takes a while to emerge and when it does, it's just like -- ow.

[coridan.livejournal.com]

Hey - not much that I can add,except that I agree with all of the points above, and find some of the new points (Jack's cowardice, for example) illuminating. Season 1 of the revival is also IMO the most *perfect* season of Dr Who I have ever watched. My only disapointment was the departure of Eccleston at the end of the season. It revived my dormant Who fandom into a roaring fire, which still has not abated.

The TARDIS having a thing for jack? Now that's an interesting competive ship to 10/Tardis fandom or whatever! :)

Also nice to see that the TARDIS is Poly! ;)

CB

[dskasak.livejournal.com]

The fart jokes with the first Slitheen appearance was admittedly immature, but in a way, it signified that the new DW wasn't totally averse to lowbrow jokes. I appreciated their partial redemption in "Boom Town," as it showed that there was more to them than bodysuits and gas jokes.

The Christian mythos appears from time to time in Seasons 1 and 2, but becomes the major storyline throughout Season 3. While there are excellent stories during last season--in particular, the 1-2-3 punch of "Human Nature/Family of Blood" and "Blink"--the summation of the "lonely God" storyline IMO casts a pallor over all that came beforehand. I won't say more than that, as I'd rather not spoil it for you, but consider this fair warning. :)

(By the way, I've caught up with all the shows in the current Season 4, and they've been excellent so far. Many of the moral quandaries surrounding time travel, and the roles played by those who have the opportunity to meddle with established history, are explicitly addressed in ways that DW traditionally had avoided in its older incarnation.)

[chaos-by-design.livejournal.com]

I will always and forever love season 1 of the new Doctor Who the best, because it has Christopher Eccleston as the Doctor, and he will always be my Doctor. It's the show that taught me to love his acting, so despite the imperfect storylines, I'll always remember it for that.

Plus, I just love the Ninth Doctor, and I'm an unabashed Doctor/Rose shipper. And I rarely get excited about love relationships, but this one just hits me in all the right places.