and finally, a TW wank!

[rm]

So there's a bit of a wank going on in the Torchwood community because of an unofficial book that quotes extensively from reviews of episodes fans have posted on LJ. The Author did not seek permission or notify the LJ'ers in question that he would be quoting them.

In addition to the expected discussion on LJ of the legality of this, netiquette, what actually constitutes criticism and the quality of the book itself, the discussion has also ranged quite far off LJ and become colored with some sexism that I find astoundingly unappealing, includng a snarky assertion about how LJ has become a safe space for many women.

Yeah, because that's what TW fandom looks like to me. Buh what?

Seriously, HP had its wanks, but it also was a predominantly female fandom and its dramas had, other than the Lexicon case which was also decided today (and which I will not be addressing) its dramas largely had a very different tone.

Torchwood isn't a predominantly female fandom. Doctor Who _really_ isn't. And this is going to be very interesting -- not just this specific situation, but this first foray into what has been a rather inevitable meeting between different fannish cultures deeply invested in the same media property.

http://rivier.livejournal.com/619067.html

Comments

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

I saw a post about that over on torch_wood. My immediate knee-jerk reaction was wildly mixed feelings about appropriateness and courtesy where fair use are concerned, and how good the author's citations are, but I don't know enough about the book and the extent to which the author used others' material to really sink my teeth into the debate or have a strong position.

Which, obviously means I've also failed to stumble upon this particular outburst of wank.

This will give me something to mull over while I count keys.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm also unsure of where I stand on the book and its citations, although it seems that few enough people were cited, that I think the guy could have at least let the LJ'ers in question know. Additionally, I'm not sure what jurisdiction the LJ'ers involved are in or where the book as published, which adds stuff to the legal wrinkles of the thing -- also, I am not a lawyer.

I was content to ignore the thing when I stumbled on it yesterday, but then I saw the new! exciting! sexism component of the thing and started to get pissy. Regardless of the initial infraction, that type of attitudinal bullshit has absolutely no place in this fandom, but in reading about it I had an of course moment, because Doctor Who really is a fandom that has many differnet constituencies within it, all of whom think they have the original claim and cred on the subject (because you know it's also like five minutes until some random slasher (and hey, I support random slashers!) who happens to be straight (and also an idiot) tells you, me or some other queer person in the fandom that they know more about homosexuality than we do).

Also, relevant to almost nothing above: I owe you email. Today is editorial hell day for the fic though -- it'll be posted by tomorrow morning and it's 33,000 words, which is kinda scary.

[tdanaher.livejournal.com]

Torchwood isn't a predominantly female fandom. Doctor Who _really_ isn't.

I haven't been into Torchwood, or Who fandom for a long time, but I was part of Who fandom back in the Peter Davison/Colin Baker days, and you could count the number of males involved with its fanzines and participating in the online forums on the fingers of one hand. Has it changed that much?

[rm.livejournal.com]

Really? That's so interesting to me, because everyone I knew before I got into Doctor Who who was a fan was a guy. Like dozens of them. And I definitely find interest in it at cons is easily 50-50 and possibly actually male dominated. Which is a big change from the sort of 90-10 female dominated split of HP fandom.

[celestialweasel.livejournal.com]

Here in the UK in the late 70s one of my school-friends was in Who fandom, and my impression then was that it was overwhelmingly male.
I first came across media-fandom in the mid 80s and that was mainly female, but Who was definitely a thing apart.

[lyorn.livejournal.com]

I have the impression that it's women who create fandom as a community, but that doesn't mean that no men ar fans of the show.

If you check places where the community is created by TPTB, you'll get a way higher percentage of active male fans, IME.

[afterthree.livejournal.com]

I suppose I understand where the LJers are coming from, but if the quotes are cited (leaving aside whether they were cited properly or not for the moment because I don't know) I honestly can't see anything really morally wrong with it, at the end of the day. I know there is a certain LJ etiquette that we all know and generally respect, but it's a difficult thing to rigidly enforce our (occasionally obscure and, let's face it, often controversial within the LJ community) rules on people who aren't a part of the community. In general, I am of the opinion that, if you have published something publicly (no filter or flock) then you have released some measure of control of it into the public. At that point, I don't see any difference between quoting someone's LJ and quoting an online article. It may have been courteous to check first, but I'm not sure he had any academic or moral obligation to do so provided the citations are present and accurate. But that's just my two cents.

[rm.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much where I stand. I'm also sick of people who aren't actually doing criticism, but doing other perfectly valid work saying their work is criticism as if that someone makes their bad manners more acceptable.

But mainly I posted this for the sexism wank-storm that followed the initial wank storm

[rm.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to formulate a longer post about this, and the way it's particularly getting my hackles up in this fandom where 've already experienced some relatively benign sexism -- (because thanks, I cosplay Jack, don't tell me what little girlish companion I'd look cute as).

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this has been a veritable hurricane of wank. And it could have been avoided by one guy sending half a dozen polite emails. What the legal ramifications are, I can't say, but once again BEING POLITE NEVER HURTS.