not waiting for the die-off

[rm]

The other day Frank Rich wrote a welcome op-ed in the New York Times that looked at how the resistance to marriage equality is both ludicrous and not likely to be significant enough to continue to control U.S. laws in another decade or so.

This piece, like many other essays, speeches, LJ posts and the like references the idea that younger people support marriage equality and, well, older people who don't will die off soon. Generational chance. Patience and we win.

I hate it. And not out of some spiritual enlightenment that thinks "waiting for the die-off" is both creepy and perhaps even morally suspect, although, I could certainly make those arguments with sincerity.

I'm also not pissed off about being asked to have patience. I don't have it, but I don't have it when I cook dinner either, so it's really neither here nor there.

No, I'm pissed off that minds will not be changed. That marriage equality will not be achieved through people admitting they were wrong, but through people just ceasing to be.

Yes, it's with a petty sense of vengeance that I loathe the die-off theory. I want bigots to change their minds. I want them to be ashamed.

It's pointless. And it's vicious.

But can you blame me, for also wanting to be vindicated?

But really, I should get over it.

And people should stop being creepy and talking about the damn die-off theory. It's not giving anyone the moral high ground.

Comments

[thessalian.livejournal.com]

I have a different problem with the 'die-off' theory - it doesn't work. I see documentaries of kids in 'Jesus camps', and pictures and videos of the Westboro Baptist Church with kids as young as five singing about God's hate, and I get terrified. These memes are passed on and particularly when there's a religious element behind it, they will continue to be passed on. The current Pope's a lunatic, which isn't going to help matters one little bit.

And of course, there's the reaction a fair few Californians had when the right to same-sex marriage was repealed, which as I recall it was, "We voted, it's decided, shut up". A lot of people who would be fine with gay rights really don't care either way as long as there isn't any fuss. The majority of people don't like fuss and go out of their way to avoid it; if they didn't, would shit like the Patriot Act have passed? Or, more to the point, would people still be so damn quiet about the torture memos now that they've been published? Enough people don't care how it's decided one way or another so long as everyone just shuts up and lets them go back to watching TV in peace, and the lunatic individuals that I don't really care to call Christians whatever they say they are tend to be a lot louder than the liberals who seek equality. So they side with the noisy ones because they hope the noisy ones shut up. And the noisy ones will always be there.

So the real enemy is apathy. But then, hasn't that always been the case?

[santousha.livejournal.com]

Good point.

[newsbean.livejournal.com]

All those kids in those videos do not grow up to be Evangelical Christians. Most of them, even.

I know, because I was one of those kids and so were all of my friends. We all had pre-marital sex and now all of us (with two exceptions) are liberals who support gay marriage, legalization of drugs and other liberal agendas.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that indoctrination works. In my experience, it does the exact opposite of the intent. Yes, we were stupid teenagers who stood in front of abortion clinics. But we couldn't vote. And when the rubber hit the road, we were seriously squicked out when we looked around us. We were pushed hard and we pushed back. And it's not just the people I know - it happens all the time. (There are communities full of these people on the web.)

Our parents are as hardline as they ever were. But their kids are not. It's not that the "die-off" works, it's that indoctrination doesn't. Memes are not all powerful.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I have a different problem with the 'die-off' theory - it doesn't work. I see documentaries of kids in 'Jesus camps', and pictures and videos of the Westboro Baptist Church with kids as young as five singing about God's hate, and I get terrified. These memes are passed on and particularly when there's a religious element behind it, they will continue to be passed on.

Yes, but what we are seeing is a gradual die off of these ideas. Part of it is old bigots dying, but the more hopeful side is that these ideas don't stick with nearly as many young people as they used to. The fundys are terrified because they are exceedingly aware of the fact that a fair percentage of their children either leave their vile faiths entirely, or simply don't really care much about it. Yes, these ideas are being passed on, but the percentage of young people who accept these ideas is getting smaller every year. In 20 years, I'm certain that somewhere between 5-10% of the US will still be fundy fanatics, but I'm equally certain that their power will at most be limited to a few states, and possibly not even there.