Children of Earth, Day 2

[rm]

Holy Fucking Shit.

And also, We Want A Pony.

Still cracky, but who cares. This is the show I always thought Torchwood could be. This is the type of narrative that I'm craving when I read and write fic -- not fanservice, no, but the examination of real emotion, real fear and real pain. This episode was at times almost unwatchable for me.

HUGE kudos to everyone for not making Jack's imortality cool and sexy. We finally get the horror, right there on screen. Alice trying not to cry (and let's face it, calling Jack's voicemail over and over to listen to her daddy's voice); Jack screaming in pain; Jack terrified, absolutely terrified with the cement thing, because he's been buried alive before, and this time there isn't any acceptance on his part, any misguided trust of people's he's loved, it's just him and that woman.

HOW MUCH DO I LOVE AN ACTION SEQUENCE WITH TWO WOMEN AT THE LEAD ON OPPOSITE SIDES? AND IT WASN'T GRATUITOUS OR FILLED WITH LESBIAN SUBTEXT? Wow wow wow. Gwen and that woman facing off, fucking amazing.

Ianto Jones is the best boyfriend ever. He also just got the greatest bit of backstory writing ever, and fandom, I want you to pause here, and think before you write fic and NOT FUCK IT UP. Because that conversation about "where dad broke my leg" and how he always pushed too hard and how the sister says maybe he should have held on tighter? That's gorgeous subtext about Ianto's family relationships and absolutely confirms in my mind what I thought about yesterday's coming out scenes, which is that the pressure on Ianto to "be a man" in his super ordinary and kinda rough upbringing was massive, subtle and constant. Of course, his father always pushed too hard. Of course he did. And I bet Ianto idolized his dad as much as he ran out the door the second he could and tried to never look back. It speaks to every obsessive, studied gesture Ianto has ever made to do things correctly, and it's heartbreaking. But remember this fandom -- Ianto Jones's father was not an abuser, and if you write that, I will roll my fucking eyes at you. This bit of writing is a testament to life being complex and difficult, fucking cherish that shit, fandom, it's rare stuff.

And seriously? Poor Ianto... what agony for him, but with Lisa, he's been through worse, right? Knew what to do, knew how to use his emotions if he couldn't push them aside. Dear god. Him climbing out of the Hub wreckage, talk about echoes or trauma there from his TW1 days.

I love Gwen in this. Love Gwen. Sweet, competent, gorgeous Gwen, who's instinct to mentor people is really gorgeous (and arguably learned from Jack).

Lois! I love the fuck out of Lois.

PC Andy!


SPECULATION:

Ianto is not going to die. Because in the preview, someone says "Frobisher was a good man" -- the "He Was a Good Man" track on the soundtrack, which has caused people so much consternation with its placement next to "The Ballad of Ianto Jones" IS ABOUT FROBISHER (as some people had already speculated), which I think means we can be a lot less worried about Ianto.


QUESTION:

So, like, does Ianto not have a flat? Did the government raid it and we didn't see it because that would be boring because no one would be there? Or has he chucked it and moved into the hub? Or has it been registered under a fake name since he snuck up to Cardiff with Lisa and he never changed it back and the gov't couldn't find it -- because only seeing the gov go to his sister's place (which was hilarious -- again, I love the look that we're getting at that community -- it feels honest and ugly, that lens, but loving) made that murky. Should have been a line about Ianto's own flat, or else, what the fuck? Not important, but fandom will go crazy over this surely.


TRIVIA:

Anyone remember that interview Barrowman gave ages ago about how he likes roleplay in his sex and mentioned that he was really into builders and construction guys at the time? Anyone else remember that while watching today's episode? Tell me I'm not going to hell alone, people.

Comments

[demotu.livejournal.com]

HOW MUCH DO I LOVE AN ACTION SEQUENCE WITH TWO WOMEN AT THE LEAD ON OPPOSITE SIDES? AND IT WASN'T GRATUITOUS OR FILLED WITH LESBIAN SUBTAXT?

DITTO. Between Gwen and Lois and the Auntie Terrorism gal and the main secretary, this show is shooting the Bechedel test in the face. Woo!

the pressure on Ianto to "be a man" in his super ordinary and kinda rough upbringing was massive, subtle and constant

That's exactly what I got from it, too - that Ianto was expected to be more than his dad ever was able to be, too. I was really worried at the card "where dad broke my leg" that they were going to go abuse (which made NO sense), so I was glad they kept it straightforward but still heartbreaking.

I loved Ianto's brother-in-law so much, ("I'm MARRIED" - i.e. not "straight") especially when he got the gang of kids out - worked well with the feeling of the neighborhood.

[smirnoffmule.livejournal.com]

I was just gonna say how much I loved Ianto's bro-in-law, and God bless them for making him this fierce, loyal, intelligent person on top of the Gay Boy bit - they've so perfectly hit on subtle with this family interaction, when they could have walloped it out with blunt tools ("Ianto's brother-in-law is homophobic!", "Ianto's dad was abusive!")

I loved this episode so much I can't even say. Favourite moments: Gwen telling Rhys "Well, you carried my bag" (and earlier, subverting the pregnant-women-can't-do-anything cliche by having him take her bag so she can better use her gun - Win!). And I have to stand up and salute the moment where Jack is handed a coat to cover his nakedness, and flings it over his shoulder.

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

how he always pushed too hard and how the sister says maybe he should have held on tighter.

yes + a billion.

it also spoke volumes to the whole, Ianto as somehow alienated, outside, sociopathic -- while seeming really innocent and childlike on the surface. There are all these gorgeous narrative metaphors at work here -- the children who are possessed, Gwen's baby, Jack's bomb, and then weirdly, along with these, Ianto, the youngest of the team.

[rm.livejournal.com]

And how sweet he was when he tried to talk to the kids in the playground and the immediate reaction, which I think had to have stung in a way that echoes through all the stuff from yesterday.

I want a pony too, goddammit. Why isn't faux alien posession on my side?

[count-to-seven.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that the Gwen v. Anonymous Government Assassin Chick had me totally grinning.

I make jokes about the interviews I've read/what GDL said at Gallifrey, but I honestly do believe that at some point Ianto just moved into the Hub. He'd have no reason to be anywhere else.

Re: I want a pony too, goddammit. Why isn't faux alien posession on my side?

[rm.livejournal.com]

If so, he'd have to have his own room though, or else they would not still be having this idiot couple conversation.

[therealycats.livejournal.com]

I'm actually really liking Gwen in this. There's always this glimmer of what could be a bad ass chick with her, but Rusty usually comes along and Mary Sues it up, negating all the awesomeness she (or Rose) had before. I'm really hoping that doesn't happen with this. There hasn't been any fawning over Jack so far, so hopefully that'll keep up.

I like Lois. I'm hoping she survives and sticks around for the next series (which according to someone on my flist with a friend at BCC Wales IS happening, thank god). Because there really needs to be some more estrogen (god I miss Tosh!).

And yes! Yay, PC Andy! It cracks me up that that's STILL how they're crediting that character.

Alice was heartbreaking again. God, I really want that to flesh out more and for them to have a relationship, but I'm sure that won't happen. Also it hit me last night that we still don't know who Jack really is. I suppose 1000 years is enough time to immerse oneself in an identity, but I just want to know who he was, what he did, and why the Time Agency erased his memory still. And the bit where the parts of his body reconnected and regenerated...my god. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if they hadn't placed his parts together. Would his head have just regenerated a complete body eventually? Or better yet, will this sort of thing be how he becomes the Face of Boe?

Damn this show for being so good and so short and having such long breaks!

[kathrynrose.livejournal.com]

Or better yet, will this sort of thing be how he becomes the Face of Boe?

That's what I was thinking at the time. Wondering if this would be how that started.

(late to the party, obv. but I just watched all five episodes last night)

[neifile7.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had a "holy fucking shit, Canary Wharf all over again" moment, watching Ianto climb out of the wreckage. And yes, it's practically Lisa redux, the way he goes after Jack, never fucking stops and just does what he has to. Except...not quite. Have to think about those differences.

I love Gwen being sweet, competent and gorgeous and getting the drop on her assassins and shooting out tires while pregnant. That's my path to hell, no doubt.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Not quite, because this time IAnto goes into it knowing he can succeed, and isn't that the biggest gift Jack can ever give him?

[oncomingscone.livejournal.com]

The whole 'Ianto/sister/dad broke my leg/always pushed too hard/should have held on tighter' thing totally moved me. Beautiful writing. Not the black and white of perfect home v abusive home. Just your usual fuzzy-grey family shit. So well written and played.

I'm with you on the 'let's not go into abuse!fic'. It's cheap and nasty and totally undeserving.

I'm guessing there was no point in showing a raid on Ianto's flat (I imagine one exists somewhere in Rusty's brain) but just no need for screen time.

I know that interview where JB speaks about finding builders very sexy (last September). He must have enjoyed swanning about naked in that quarry with GDL in a hard hat.

Is Torchwood just JB's fantasy and we've all got sucked into it because he emits so much powerful energy?

Right. Gearing up for part 3. Hope Zombie McGarry gets it.

[fmanalyst.livejournal.com]

Speaking of quarries, how classic Who is that!

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

That's gorgeous subtext about Ianto's family relationships and absolutely confirms in my mind what I thought about yesterday's coming out scenes, which is that the pressure on Ianto to "be a man" in his super ordinary and kinda rough upbringing was massive, subtle and constant. Of course his father always pushed too hard. Of course he did. And I bet Ianto idolized his dad as much as he ran out the door the second he could and tried to never look back. It speaks to every obsessive, studied gesture Ianto has ever made to do things correctly, and it's heartbreaking. But remember this fandom -- Ianto Jones's father was not an abuser, and if you write that, I will roll my fucking eyes at you. This bit of writing is a testament to life being complex and difficult, fucking cherish that shit, fandom, it's rare stuff.

this needed repeating
and i think we're supposed to assume ianto lives at the hub (and now he's homeless, so he, jack, gwen and rhys will have to buy that house together... i believe you are writing this, yes?)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Sorta, yes. Kali and I are working on integrating our plan for EtGB with the new S3 canon (our ability to do this is dependent on who is alive at the end of S3, as EtGB is S2.5 and S3.5, but we're hoping we're not gonna have to go AU for the plan)

[rhianona]

re: Ianto's flat - I think if we ever see it, it will be a THING, in that we've seen everyone else's and it's pretty obvious that his is the only one we've not. So, I think we're just not going to see his, unless he either dies, or, if he survives to the end of the show's series whenever that is, at that point we might see a glimpse of it. Maybe he's taken over Tosh or Owen's flats - after all, Jack requisitioned Owen's car, as we saw in yesterday's episode.

It is pretty awesome to see two women in positions of action that aren't being sexualized. I'm also loving what we're getting from Ianto's family because it explain so much about who he is.

[rm.livejournal.com]

OH! Was that Owen's car? I was wondering what was up with that!

[timelady.livejournal.com]

Definitely, yes, yes, love Lois! *crossing as many fingers as possible for her to make it through the season* I totally grinned like a crazy person when Gwen told her to come talk to her after all this business was over. Considering how well she is with computers she might actually be able to handle some of Tosh's position. (though when I actually decide I like a character it usually means the character is doomed to have a large impacting death near the end)

And Yay with the forklift! I loved how he even stole the construction worker neon yellow jacket and hard hat.

I really liked Rhys this time around since he was right in the middle of things and totally caught up in that meeting with Lois. And his reaction to Gwen's news was wonderful. They looked so happy. He's so doomed. And I'm going to be sad to see him go. Either that or she's going to miscarry (which wouldn't be surprising with the explosion, getting shot at, and everything else).

And I gotta say, I love Ianto's sister's neighborhood. Seriously, that's a fun neighborhood when you can just grab a gang together to go harrass a government car.

[satora-chan.livejournal.com]

I really, really love Lois. Her entire moment at the restaurant and her saying, "I'm a PA; that's what I do," was completely fantastic.

However, I really don't see how she could be considered a replacement for Tosh at the moment (or even a semi-replacement). I mean, what we've seen so far is that she knows how to login to an account, navigate a secret government wiki, and basically look up information. If anything, I would think she would be a shoe-in into part of Ianto's position - she's a researcher, a public relations expert, and an organizer. If (when!) recruited, it appears (right now) that she'd take off some of Ianto's load so he can work more in the field. Unless I missed some technology kickassery at some point?

[kalliopeia.livejournal.com]

Ianto is not going to die. Because in the preview, someone says "Frobisher was a good man" -- the "He Was a Good Man" track on the soundtrack, which has caused people so much consternation with its placement next to "The Ballad of Ianto Jones" IS ABOUT FROBISHER (as some people had already speculated), which I think means we can be a lot less worried about Ianto.

That was absolutely the first thing I thought when I heard that line.

I'm loving that I can actually like Gwen in this season. I dislike her so much so often, it's good to see her being so fabulous and asskicking.

[blackbird-song.livejournal.com]

With you a million percent, however technically impossible that may be, on everything you said about Ianto and his family background and dynamic. I'm letting some things percolate so that I can write the treatment that this deserves, rather than the tripe that could so easily have come out of it.

Concerning your trivia question, you are not going to hell alone.

Catherine

[tommx.livejournal.com]

1. My sick mind saw Jack being doused in wet cement and thought of Jack engaging in naked mudwrestling. Clearly I read too much fanfic.

2. I read one reaction that seemed to think this was a weaker episode than the opening. They missed the point. This is panning out like a symphony. After the first movement, which is fast, you need something a bit slower, and more reflective for contrast. It was brilliantly done, and I am loving every single moment of it.

3. Does Jack have his own personal tailor or just a stockpile of those military coats somewhere that he can get to whenever he wants?

4. I like Frobisher, partly because I like Peter Cipaldi and have not seen him in anything in a very long time. (probably not since Dangerous Liasons actually). I want to see as much as possible, so I am hoping the "Frobisher was a good man" comment is to describe the person he was compared to the person he has become.

5. I pegged Lois as a possible recruit for Torchwood yesterday early on. Granted, I thought it would be her and Rupesh joining the team, but that was excellent bait and switch.

6. Your comment about Ianto reminds me of a moment from Angel's 2nd season when Wesley is on the phone with his father, trying to explain how he'd become head of the group, and instead having to lapse into "Yes sir. Yes sir." etc.

7. My favorite moment was when Jack, stark naked, is handed a coat, and rather than cover what I'm sure is an impressive bit of manliness, slings the coat casually over his shoulder. I fucking LOVE Barrowman.

[satora-chan.livejournal.com]

3. OH MY GOD HIS COAT IS GONE.

I JUST REALISED.

[xpenclickerredx.livejournal.com]

Love reading your reviews! I completely agree, this new grungy, less sexy Torchwood is exactly where I had hoped this show would one day end up. It's facinating, painful and beautiful. And GDL is one heck of an actor, dang.

Lois is adorable, yes. I completely agree. Last episode I was having trouble deciding if I liked her or the doctor better, but seeing as Rupesh turned out to be villainous and doomed, I would say lovely Lois wins. And what a doll she is!

But remember this fandom -- Ianto Jones's father was not an abuser, and if you write that, I will roll my fucking eyes at you.

Eye rolling is serious business. You make a great point though, shadows in people's past don't always have to be physically violent to haunt who they are now and its great that this episode showed that.

Ianto Jones is the best boyfriend ever.
The crane scene was made of win. I have no clue where he learned to operate a fucking crane but he's officially a badass.

It's been bugging me though - is the pterodactyl dead or did the writers this season just forget Torchwood had a pterodactyl?

[penguineggs.livejournal.com]

I thought there'd been no confirmed sightings of Myfanwy since she was las t seen fighting Lisa? Anyway, she might have been out hunting or something.

I'm another one who believes that Frobisher Was a Good Man refers to the man he was opposed to the man he has become. He's still doomed, though.

Yes another corrupt Prime Minister exploiting the power vacuum created by the Doctor's ill-considered petulant removal of Harriet Jones, too.

[justinej.livejournal.com]

Perfect review. I am loving everything so far so much I can't put it into words!! So wonderful to read lovely appreciative reviews!

[jenny-b79.livejournal.com]

Great review, thanks! 100% with you on the not-abuse - let's hope you'll be heeded!

[verasteine.livejournal.com]

You are brilliant. And I will mem this for when I'm going to have enough brain left to write again (read: after TW). That's the most perfect picture of Ianto's upbringing you just painted, and you need to write fic about this. Seriously.

Gwen is so fucking awesome, I want to be her. She's my new action hero.

(And you're not going to hell alone. I was thinking that when the photos of Ianto with that hard hat were coming out!)

[rm.livejournal.com]

I'm already sort of thinking about a Ianto backstory piece. I think we think of tailors as fuss, delicate men, especially those of us that don't go to tailors or only go to certain sorts of tailors, but in New York the best tailors are in some areas which have been until very recently very poor and even while offering you nice, quiet defferential service have a poster or two of a flash car or a chick in a bikini on the wall, hidden behind current projects wqhile there's the poster explaning how long to wear your shirt sleeves up in the front. I just see Ianto's father as having these massive, thick fingers, so much so that as a boy Ianto wonders how the man can even thread a needle and I'm just stuck on this idea that somehow, through that sort of contrast and the secret glee of going to the movies (stories of others!) Ianto's father taught the boy that your body is not you life, and yet felt so strongly that his son, who was a bit awkward and odd "be a man" -- it's like a conversation Lifty and I had the other day, how our parents give us tools to allows us to live lives they never ever would have wished for us.

[woogledesigns.livejournal.com]

I love the look that we're getting at that community -- it feels honest and ugly, that lens, but loving Being the pretty much the one that I grew up around I felt oddly gratified seeing it.

So, like, does Ianto not have a flat? Maybe but if he does it wasn't shown because it didn't advance the plot, which makes perfect sense, but that did leave me asking the same questions.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Right! If there had just been a throwaway line about it somewhere.

[rednwhiterose.livejournal.com]

My random thought of the day (or WHAT ABOUT JACK'S COAT?!?!?!?):

I think, somewhere in Cardiff, is a storage unit (maintained by Ianto) that has an unending supply of coats for Jack. Because really, if you think about it, I'm sure Torchwood is very hard on clothing, period pieces especially.

[rm.livejournal.com]

All I can say is the coat better be back, because you don't want to know what I went through to get mine.

[urnssadomen.livejournal.com]

"And seriously? Poor Ianto... what agony for him, but with Lisa, he's been through worse, right? Knew what to do, knew how to use his emotions if he couldn't push them aside. Dear god. Him climbing out of the Hub wreckage, talk about echoes or trauma there from his TW1 days."

And the part before that, when he was forced onto the lift; it was Lisa all over again. Just stand there and stare. No one to hold him back but himself, because there is no other choice, not even any one to beg mercy from... extremely heartbreaking if you compare the two event.

[lynnenne]

You have put into words everything I love about this season. It's fan-fucking-tastic!

[adjovi.livejournal.com]

oh wow...this review was absolutely excellent--thanks so much for sharing. i loved (as already noted by many others in words more eloquent than mine) your exploration of the subtleties in family dynamics being explored here--really just such unepectedly lovely writing.

And Gwen trying not to look, but totally looking, and Ianto, so clearly looking to make sure all of Jack is there (all while wearing that dopey grin -- OMG, Ianto so adorable!)

nods and grins in agreement--that scene was so made of win. thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

[valancy-joy.livejournal.com]

yes to all the subtlety... but one thing I lol'd over that was very subtle... the first time the Frobisher kids freeze up ... the upper middle income kids... no one notices... mom and dad just wander around past it.

meanwhile the parents from obviously more economically strapped homes are giving their kids what for, for making their already difficult days moreso!!

dude. rusty. subtle.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yup, saw that, it was GENIUS.

[jadesfire.livejournal.com]

Um. Hi. I lurk. Although apparently not so much any more. Anyway.

This bit of writing is a testament to life being complex and difficult, fucking cherish that shit, fandom, it's rare stuff.
THANK YOU! This puts words around what I've been feeling about both episodes so far. If it's possible for subtlety to be stunning, then that's how I want to describe the writing. There's not a single wasted word or gesture or look, however casual things seem (the turnaround on 'let me carry the bag' was just genius).

I still hesitate on saying things about Ianto, because I'm waiting to get to know him at last, so for me, it was Jack's moments with his daughter that were the best. Not when she says 'Dad', although that was jaw-dropping enough. When she figures out why he's really there. And while she's angry, she's not surprised. Because he's Jack, and this is what she expects from him. And while she wants to know he's okay, she still *knows* him and doesn't trust him. That's just... Nope, still can't get words around this one, but I couldn't love RTD more for giving me *this* Jack, with the steel under the velvet.

Although I'm also cursing him because I was totally ready to give up on Torchwood. And now I can't.

Oh, and also, I absolutely have a seat booked in that handcart to hell...

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

You are not going to hell alone. You're really, really not.

This is the show I always thought Torchwood could be.

One thing I keep thinking, watching these two eps we've had so far, is how GLORIOUSLY BRILLIANT the whole thing is so far. They're building on everything that's come before and the characters have really come into their own properly. The writing team collaborated from day one, there's a single director, they filmed the whole thing in order, etc.

It is a perfect storm of awesome because of so many wonderful causes and conditions.

So yes. THIS.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I have heard one teensy spoiler for tonight and am about to explode.

[better-late24.livejournal.com]

Ianto is not going to die. Because in the preview, someone says "Frobisher was a good man" -- the "He Was a Good Man" track on the soundtrack, which has caused people so much consternation with its placement next to "The Ballad of Ianto Jones" IS ABOUT FROBISHER (as some people had already speculated), which I think means we can be a lot less worried about Ianto.

<-- is reassured.