on being queer in Boston

[rm]

Everyone stops and asks us for directions and thinks we live here because we're lesbians. EVERYONE. We kiss in public, and then suddenly someone is interrupting us to ask where the T is or a given mall. OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

So many gay families, OMG!

Wearing the suit was interesting and highlighted to me how much there are two Bostons: queer Boston and New England wealthy Boston. New England wealthy Boston involved men looking the _suit_ up and down and then glaring at me. Queer Boston involved certain level of eye-contact and engagement that I was unused to -- both as a New Yorker and as someone still leaning to wear the suit in public and feel like it won't engender unpleasant commentary. The gaze of people here feels so much more informed: is that person trans? is that person gender queer? is that a butch lesbian? People want to know and do the right thing -- the way I look doesn't necessarily make it easy though.

It does feel different to be gay in public here, which surprises me. ALthough, while New York is very safe and Patty and I are very affectionate in public, I realize that it is still often not the norm in NYC. I don't see queer couples holding hands constantly back home. Here I do see it, all the time. It's like that thing about "I'm not a hero for turning you on" -- I'm not a hero for being normally affectionate with my partner here. No one looks at us and smiles, because we aren't the only ones and we're not setting an example.

Did have one particularly bizarre moment in which a man who was clearly with his two wives (in trying to describe that this was a Muslim traditional-seeming family and not a poly grouping more similar that of many of my friends I inadvertantly said something that was offensive to poly poeple. I do not have a problem with poly people or poly relationships, and I apologize. I should also note I was aware of the relationship status between these three people because I had been walking behind them for several blocks and overheard their conversation, and I was not making an assumption about their relationship status based on their clothing or biases about Muslims -- however, I may additionally still be engaging in inappropriate biases for assuming their poly relationship is any different from that of my various friends', I am trying to do good here and feel that I am so clearly fucking this up, and I should perhaps delete this entire story, the original point of which was that there are such a huge variety of relationships and reactions to relationships that I was entirely charmed by the entire thing. Anyway, I fucked up, I've sent individual apologies as well, I intend to do better next time.) Anyway, the man was arguing with the women, because they thought a gay male couple holding hands were so cute ("they were holding fingers!") and the guy was all "it's worse than San Francisco!"

Comments

[schmidtybooger.livejournal.com]

No one looks at us and smiles, because we aren't the only ones and we're not setting an example.


Oh god. I realized after reading this that I smile at gay couples holding hands (really I smile at any couple holding hands) because I love to see people holding hands. I hope I haven't offended anyone by doing it. I just love to see people in love.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I'm never offended by it -- sometimes it's just tiring when it happens a lot. Butyou! You're just neighborly, being from Texas and all. I thinkit can just read weirdly in New York where people Do Not Acknowledge Each Other.

[better-late24.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize Boston had a big gay population, enough so that being openly affectionate would lead people to believe you lived there. Has it always been like that, or is this fairly recent? I don't think I was ever aware of it when I lived on the East Coast.

The phrase "holding fingers" is tickling me, for some reason.

[rm.livejournal.com]

First state in the nation with legal gay marriage. Especially for gay couples with children, it would be foolish not to live here.

[alba17.livejournal.com]

Wow, I had no idea. Grew up in Boston burbs, but never lived there as an adult. Maybe I need to move back. I rarely see any other gay people where I live in DC suburbs. (The wrong side, i.e. not Takoma Park.)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Man, DC is like the land of closeted gay people. It's sooooo tiring. And I say this as someone who worked at Lambda Rising. Sooooo tiring.

[liminalia.livejournal.com]

"hipster poly"--do you have a negative opinion of poly folk?

[marcmagus]

So I'm not the only one who read that and thought, "Hey, wait, I'm not a hipster."

Do hipsters do poly differently in a way that makes them a more appropriate contrast?

[contrarywise]

Boston is a funny-cool place, for sure. There's many Bostons, of course -- not just the queer and wealthy ones. But I understand where you're coming from with that, especially wrt the suit. Our queer community is very diverse and active--we have a large and visible trans community and we have the Bisexual Resource Center and the Fenway Community Health Center, as well as various gay and lesbian organizations, social clubs, bars and bar nights, and other resources and activities. One of the many things that has kept me here for all these years is that large and diverse community and the overall visibility of queers here. I think the success of the marriage equality fight here also makes a difference in how comfortable and open queer people are in public in Boston.

Hee.

[thenowhere.livejournal.com]

We've been to Boston a few times -- you want strange? Being *Not* Gay where I live is strange, right now. Western MA, the Northampton area -- we were once worried that Morgan would be 'the kid with two mommies' -- but Jeez. In his school of 100 kids, I'm pretty sure there are more 'two mommy households' than any other kind.

Holly and I have been holding hands since before she was married to someone else, back in Central NY, cow-country, where the rednecks might beat you up unless they're drunk and think two chicks are hot.

We've been stopped, here in MA, where it's legal, and 'normal', by people coming out of the Big Y, so they can yell "YES! WOOO!" and genuinely mean to show their utter delight and pride in how we're affectionate. (They explained they'd just seen Milk, and so they were feeling emotional.) We were remarked on by a lesbian couple from Chicago who're in their middle years, and Do Not Show Affection like that at all, because they're from a place/time where it's Just Not Done. And really, one of them was a little envious -- she would like to be that comfortable.

It never, EVER occurred to me that I couldn't/shouldn't/wouldn't touch her, be affectionate with her, kiss her, do anything and everything with her in public that I'd potentially do with any other person I love. I've smooched other people in public, so... why not her? Oh, wait, because she's a girl, and I'm a girl? That's ridiculous.

I'm incredibly glad to live in a place where what feels natural to me is something that's perfectly acceptable. And now that we're doing the 'getting married' thing, it's even more important.

Also, if we had more hours in the day, I'd say "OMG! We're gonna be in Boston this afternoon, and I would give my eyeteeth to meet you." ...but we're gonna be in the airport the whole time, doing a farewell to a friend who's off to Ireland for a month, and then we're driving all the way back to NoHo, so I imagine there simply wouldn't be time. But! Have fun. And get some T maps, for the people who ask. ;)

Re: Hee.

[liminalia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that bit about the couple from Chicago reminds me of something that happened w/my first gf. (I live in DeKalb, IL, a rural college town.) My gf was active in the local queer groups, out to everyone including her folks, and yet, when I reached across the restaurant table to hold her hand on one of our early dates, she was shocked. She said it had never felt safe to her. This was in about '98. But we experimented with walking around town holding hands and no one ever said a word.

[idunn.livejournal.com]

That last story cracked me the fuck up.

[liminalia.livejournal.com]

I know, me too. Now I am imagining that guy's wives being slash fans and him being bemused and dismayed. :P

[demotu.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's awesome. Stories like this - and going to Europe, where I saw more obvious (and some of them were young - like, maybe twenty-year-old boys) gay couples in public than ever before - make me realize my city does have a conservative edge. But then, we're not a "big city" with the metropolitan draws of Montreal or Toronto.

[nicoli-dominn.livejournal.com]

As far as polyamorous groupings, I think each one is different from the other, because everyone wants something different from a polyamorous relationship. Some people refer to them as open relationships, some of them have a centralized couple or person, some of them treat all parties in the relationship more or less equally.

In the case of polyamorous relationships in relation to religious custom, I don't think you've made an offensive generalization. It is true that not all Muslims practice polyamory and polygamy, even in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, but it is also true that a fair number of them still do in both Muslim countries and other non-Muslim countries. In the US, of course, the polygamy wouldn't be legal, but that doesn't necessarily discourage polyamory.

On a complete different note, I'm surprised about the eye-contact thing in Boston. Maybe it's just that some people observing you identified with you, but having lived in Boston for nearly my whole life (up until a few months ago), I noticed that when I made eye contact with people, they usually looked away first (deliberately), or made some sort of forbidding facial gesture, or walked faster, like they were avoiding me. Every time I mentioned it to other people, they said they had experienced it, too, so I know it's not just me. Whereas in Nashville, strangers speak to each other all the time, and making eye contact is not perceived as a threat. I guess Boston, in contrast to New York, might be slightly more socially open...the times I've been in Manhattan, I found that people's avoidance of one another was even more frequent and obvious than in Boston (the Bronx was very different from Manhattan, though). That could be just my observation, though.

[nicoli-dominn.livejournal.com]

Actually, I just remembered something...back when Anna and I were dating and we walked around Harvard Square a few times together (and were openly affectionate, holding hands and wrapping arms around each others' waists while walking, or affectionately tousling, etc.), I do remember people looking at us a lot more than when I walked around with Sneider (my current fiance, who is male.) So perhaps the Boston reservedness is only for when you're walking around alone and making random eye contact with people. I'd need to experiment more to see if that's the case. Goddamn curiosity...

[virginia-fell.livejournal.com]

archmage_brian and I have been considering moving to New England once we leave the midwest, and Boston was on the list.

Now it's really really high on the list.

[tenacious-snail.livejournal.com]

I've found it odd, when I'm in NYC, how out of place same-sex affection seems. Also, when staying at a hotel near Times Square, I got lots and lots of hostile glares and funny looks. I assume from tourists, but it nonetheless make me see that city as not-accepting-and-friendly, just tolerant.

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

We kiss in public, and then suddenly someone is interrupting us to ask where the T is or a given mall.

This so funny!

It's interesting to hear how MA has changed since equal marriage. I have this whole theory about how equal marriage in New England is an expression of the persistance of Puritan culture (building on Albion's Seed), but it hasn't gelled yet.

Theory about how equal marriage in New England is expression of the persistence of Puritan culture

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

In all sincerity, I don't see how. I would argue that the existence of equal marriage in Canada is an expression of the persistence of Victorian culture, which is the opposite theory.

I would be open to discussing it further, however.

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

This poly girl is not offended by the way the story came out as of this posting, and thinks the scene must have been very interesting to watch.

Sometimes, that's exactly how we gang up on our mate. :-)

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

I smile at couples hand-holding too. Because I'm secretly a gooey romantic and seeing people in love makes me happy.

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

New England wealthy Boston involved men looking the _suit_ up and down and then glaring at me.

Huh. Do you think that’s a gender thing, a class thing, or a wounded vanity thing? Like, is it that you’re a woman in a suit, a woman in a good suit, or (I would guess) a person wearing a suit better than they are?

[sethg]

...or a person who is wearing a suit appropriate for A Certain Class but is missing some other subtle insignia certifying them as a member of That Class?

[isil-helyanwe.livejournal.com]

This is such an interesting post... makes me think that London must be quite a closeted/unaffectionate city. And may I ask, is it typically seen as patronising for gay couples to be smiled at (or whatever other similar reaction)? I know I do it, and a little bit of me thinks, "Awww" because it's rare in London and it makes me happy that couples feel comfortable showing affection in public. It is annoying for people to do so?

[annablume.livejournal.com]

Glad you're having such a good time. When you get home, might it be possible for you to link again to your suit maker? I'm digging through old posts, but I'm failing.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

I belive it's Dutchess Clothier. I spent some time yesterday looking at all the pretty suits and imagining myself in them.

[perlandria.livejournal.com]

I loved reading the whole thing, and find the wives' comment to be amusing. I am sorry you caught flack. Not having seen the original comment, I have no idea if you put your foot in your mouth. But given that even among mostly ango-saxon, mostly middle class, pagan, gamer, geek circles - which I think technically my triad most falls, there is too much variation in geometry, hierarchy styles, arrangements, permissions, households etc. yadda yadda that it would never occur to me that there was a Given. Life is not homogeneous. Taking the time to explain what you saw to put the comments in context would have made sense.

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

I get asked for directions all the time, wherever I go, but never because I was kissing my girlfriend!

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Not only do i get asked for directions, I get asked about exhibits.
Beats me.

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

The wives sound adorable. Especially since I can remember it beong totally okay for admittedly liberal Muslim women and girls to hold hands or walk arm in arm when I lived in Morocco; it was friendship, nobody thought anything else about it.

Also, "Worse than San Francisco!" totally cracks me up. Go us.

When my then-girlfriend and I were in Atlanta, some black guys came up to us on the street and asked us if we were in town for "the convention". A bit of miscommunication happened then; we were in town for Dragoncon, but they'd been obliquely referring to Atlanta Pride, which was apparently next week. Once it was established that we were all queer, the black guys relaxed from tough-guy-gangsta pose that had been worrying me a little and became totally swishy.

[these-3-remain.livejournal.com]

I love it that the Muslim family you observed, who are likely quite "othered" in this country, were having an argument about othering a gay couple. It's so funny how people are - I was just thinking about this in relation to my religious beliefs, and how I think some people are just very spiritual and other people are just members of cults. And I thought, "Well, where do I draw the line? Who am I to assume I have more insight than anyone else?" And it's the same way with relationships - we become comfortable with one thing or another, because it's familiar to us, forgetting that it's not familiar to everyone.

[womynchild.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to offer my thanks. I live in the Bible Belt with my lover who likes to believe that we do not have undue issues. The only way I touch her in public is to hold the back of her arm above her elbow to assist me as I'm visually impaired. Occasionally, I forget where we are and she reminds me that I may get her killed trying to hold her hand. Just this morning, we had a disagreement about how we are treated here. I thought of you, in a suit, singing in the rain with the hot air steaming off city streets. New York is the only place I've ever been that felt like home. It feels strangely safe to be surrounded by so many people, walls of people, without actually being seen singularly. It would be bliss to touch her there. I imagine her butch walk proud, strong, free. B maintains that we must be careful and aware no matter where we were. I feel that if I died for openly loving her, it would be a good death. I don't feel comfortable at all at the idea of putting her in the path of destruction. (A few weeks ago, I had to explain to her what the cobweb on the elbow tat meant as we instinctively stopped holding hands in her car as we were within eyesight of a man getting out of his truck).
Sorry. I digress. The point is, when you write of my city that i love, I feel free of this place for a moment. My country view, replete with trailors and produce stand and the mountains that hold sentinal all around fades away. I suspect I would kiss the ground to be in Manhattan again.

[qaffangyrl.livejournal.com]

Hi rm,

a few things.
1) for some reason I could have sworn you were british. *shrugs* don't know how I missed that.

2) Your Boston account reminded of the last time I visited NYC. I'd been several times b4 but this time I traveled alone and planned out a neighborhood walking tour. One of the places I visited was the West Village. (I work with gay youth and my grad school emphasis is queer history & culture as represented in media) Anyhow, I must have been stopped at least have a dozen times by gay/lesbian tourists asking me to take a picture of them in front of various historic places. I don't know if it was b/c I was by myself that I seemed so approachable or what. I was a tourist too after all. Oh they were almost all from different countries.

3) Des Moines Iowa is a surprisingly visible place for gay and lesbian couples. Granted I lived in the "arts" district but it wasn't uncommon to see same-sex couples holding hands. And even at my fav bar which wasn't technically a gay bar but it'd been written up as the "most gay friendly straight bar" in local guides it was pretty much the norm that by the end of the evening at least one same-sex couple (usually male) was making out on one of the couches.

[weirdquark]

No one looks at us and smiles, because we aren't the only ones and we're not setting an example.

I've been living in Cambridge for the past eight years - two of my roommates (lesbian couple) do say they occasionally get people smiling at them or telling them they're cute when they're affectionate in public, but I think you're right that most people don't pay much attention to gay couples because there are a lot of them.

I did walk to work carrying a plastic scythe on Halloween once and got a lot of indulgent smiles though. And random people will try to strike up a conversation when I wear my cloak. Possibly in Cambridge costuming is an alternative/queer lifestyle?

[kargashina.livejournal.com]

i am breaking my brain trying to imagine a specifically hipster poly..