sundries

[rm]

A dueling society is a polite society. Seriously, without advocating violence in any way, shape or form, I need to note that as I listen to the batshit insanity that is the healthcare debate (and it's not about healthcare, it's about insurance. I don't want affordable insurance; I want affordable, responsive healthcare that doesn't think the way to cut costs is to tell me, as a woman, that it's all in my head) that once upon a not very long time ago, calling someone out as a liar, particularly someone who was not lying, in public, was grounds for a duel at dawn. So would have been casting aspersions about place of birth, religious adherence and the personal grooming habits of one's children. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE DISCOURSE, and I feel like people are engaging in it simply because there are apparently no repercussions whatsoever. It appalls me.

[ETA: Okay, before anyone else rants at me about dueling -- yes, I know that was a shitty solution too, as traditions of honor were largely used as ways to provoke fights and skill at violence often won out over who was actually correct. Please remember that I'm a student of classical and historical fencing, and that sometimes I'm slightly wry about it. Historically speaking, if one calls "you're a liar" it had to be dealt with, as, at minimum, someone trying to start a fight -- this is my point. Today it's just dealt with as a somehow reasonable part of the political discourse.]

[ETA2: I am not misquoting Heinlein. I am repeating a remark that has often been the subject of discussion in my fencing salle.]

Okay, we are not going on the Cunard cruise. The scheduling is too complicated with Patty's school obligations. But! We're already seriously looking at another cruise that leaves from NYC in early January and are going to talk through some other options this weekend and then just get it booked.

While we were away, someone was stabbed to death in front of our subway stop at 9:45 at night.

I am writing Jack/Weeping Angels for the omnijaxual fest.

My mood is somewhat better than yesterday, but still wonky.

In a moment of temporal hilarity, it seems the next DWNY meetup featuring a special guest is at the same time as the Nick Cave reading on Monday. Inconvenient, but amusing.

I'd like to finish the Bristol abstract tonight.

Okay, I see my friendslist getting all excited about S2 of their new favorite cracky show, Merlin, but do I really need to tell you there will be one or two gutting deaths at the end of this season, and then when they bring it back for S3, it'll actually appear to be well-crafted television drama which will end with Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies? Only the Slash!Dragon will survive. Oh Torchwood, you have scarred me.

Comments

[angstzeit.livejournal.com]

Except for those who are superior duelers. Being right gives way to being better at dueling.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

"A dueling society is a polite society. "

Heinlein didn't know what he was talking about. I, too, used to romanticize dueling; then I read the excellent, highly recommended Gentlemen's Blood: A History of Dueling by Barbara Holland.

When dueling wasn't simply personal, it was a way for thugs and bullies to enforce their wills. It's a medieval remnant to believe that the person in the right is also the person who is better at shooting/fencing whatever. (Although clearly in your case this would be true. *g*) Duelists weren't polite; they were simply better at killing people, nor were the societies they lived in notably polite. (See: late-1800s France, where both the yellow press and dueling were endemic.)

At least two great men, the mathematician Évariste Galois and the poet Alexander Pushkin, died young in duels over love affairs; although society was impoverished by the gentlemen's loss, the manners of the public changed not a whit. (At least one of the ladies involved went on her merry way.)

Sorry to sidetrack with a rant; that book updated my head big-time.

[splix.livejournal.com]

That's a fantastic book. :D

[moonpupy.livejournal.com]

The actual quote is: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon (1942)

Dueling has nothing to do with it. If you are willing to backup your beliefs with your life, your beliefs become much more tangible.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I've updated my post, which I hope offers some clarification.

I was not detailed, because I'm not detailed before noon. And if Heinlein ever said "a dueling society is a polite society" I didn't know that and I try not to get any of my world view from him as a rule. That came from my fencing master in this case.

Yay book rec though.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I was not quoting Heinlein. I was quoting my fencing master.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

It's an awesome book. (I've moved the rant to my journal; apologies.)

What he actually said is "an armed society is a polite society", but he was referring to dueling in practice.

[rm.livejournal.com]

No, it's cool. You got me to clarify before like 20 other people came after me, so hopefully it's a more reasoned convo now!

To be frank, I bristled less at what you had to say than at the possibility anyone could think I get any of my worldview from Heinlein, who is an author I tend not to be generous about, despite having enjoyed some aspects of some of his books.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

I loved Heinlein growing up... nowadays I have antibodies.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I only ever read a few and got turned off pretty fast by the time-traveling incestuous redhead sex situations.

[sethg]

Regarding Galois, I recommend Mario Livio's book The Equation That Couldn't Be Solved, both for the history and the math.

[ladyaelfwynn.livejournal.com]

I so agree with you. Current political debate is not so much debate as it is lying hysterics. It worked for the Salem Witch Trials, why not now?

I'm glad that Barney Frank was stern and called it like he saw it and I want more to do the same. To say, "Stop. This is unacceptable behaviour."

I just hope it works and quickly, I' really am tired of the batshit crazy that's invaded the news and rational discourse.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

I really meant "who deserves better"; there was no reason to dump all that stored bile on you rather than in my journal! You didn't say anything that deserved a rant.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

If you read Heinlein's books, that particular trope (with that quote, I think) shows up in one of them -- the Moonies are very polite because they duel.

Letter to late Heinlein

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

YOUR ID PLEASE KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS KTHXBAI.

[wordweaverlynn.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Eww yuck.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Starship Troopers is ridiculously close to Real Life in my country that when I read it the first time I did not notice the Fascism.

... I still like it though, as well as Stranger in a Strange Lang, if only because I can now grok things more easily.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I have a deep, crazy, irrational love for the utterly batshit Starship Troopers movie.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

It's the green goo from the Bugs.
And dismemberment. There's nothing more entertaining than dismemberment when it happens in such an arbitrary and utterly brainless manner.

Also the FX rock, all the phallic and yonic imagery are too good.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

I do recall quite enjoying the lunacy of it, yes.

And once I'd taken the fascistic society of ST as read, it was a reasonably enjoyable book (though I'm told that there are various revised editions available - earlier ones are better because they predate Late Heinlein's rewrites).

For war-related SF of that general period, I still prefer "The Forever War".

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

Dueling, eh. I just want to smack mouthy Republicans with my glove.

(Seriously, though? Appalled is not a strong enough word. It's like half our elected officials have forgotten how to conduct themselves in that context. ARGH.)

Eek on the stabbing. Amused by the scheduling conflict.

[bethynyc.livejournal.com]

I blame you for my signing up for omnijaxual! I'm trying NOT to write fanfic--I have plays to write!

[isil-helyanwe.livejournal.com]

My my, CoE does appear to have disillutioned many people when it comes to ridiculous BBC drama. I try very hard to predict the outcome of Merlin according to the Arthurian cycle but it remains hilariously disconnected.

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE DISCOURSE, and I feel like people are engaging in it simply because there are apparently no repercussions whatsoever. It appalls me.

This, in so many ways. I suppose the ultimate rebellion nowadays is to learn one's manners and use them... *sigh*

[blucrowlaughing.livejournal.com]

and to add a SF war book series : War Against the Chtorr - David Gerrold

it has its flaws but like a social disease I feel the need to spread it :)