sundries

[rm]

A dueling society is a polite society. Seriously, without advocating violence in any way, shape or form, I need to note that as I listen to the batshit insanity that is the healthcare debate (and it's not about healthcare, it's about insurance. I don't want affordable insurance; I want affordable, responsive healthcare that doesn't think the way to cut costs is to tell me, as a woman, that it's all in my head) that once upon a not very long time ago, calling someone out as a liar, particularly someone who was not lying, in public, was grounds for a duel at dawn. So would have been casting aspersions about place of birth, religious adherence and the personal grooming habits of one's children. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE DISCOURSE, and I feel like people are engaging in it simply because there are apparently no repercussions whatsoever. It appalls me.

[ETA: Okay, before anyone else rants at me about dueling -- yes, I know that was a shitty solution too, as traditions of honor were largely used as ways to provoke fights and skill at violence often won out over who was actually correct. Please remember that I'm a student of classical and historical fencing, and that sometimes I'm slightly wry about it. Historically speaking, if one calls "you're a liar" it had to be dealt with, as, at minimum, someone trying to start a fight -- this is my point. Today it's just dealt with as a somehow reasonable part of the political discourse.]

[ETA2: I am not misquoting Heinlein. I am repeating a remark that has often been the subject of discussion in my fencing salle.]

Okay, we are not going on the Cunard cruise. The scheduling is too complicated with Patty's school obligations. But! We're already seriously looking at another cruise that leaves from NYC in early January and are going to talk through some other options this weekend and then just get it booked.

While we were away, someone was stabbed to death in front of our subway stop at 9:45 at night.

I am writing Jack/Weeping Angels for the omnijaxual fest.

My mood is somewhat better than yesterday, but still wonky.

In a moment of temporal hilarity, it seems the next DWNY meetup featuring a special guest is at the same time as the Nick Cave reading on Monday. Inconvenient, but amusing.

I'd like to finish the Bristol abstract tonight.

Okay, I see my friendslist getting all excited about S2 of their new favorite cracky show, Merlin, but do I really need to tell you there will be one or two gutting deaths at the end of this season, and then when they bring it back for S3, it'll actually appear to be well-crafted television drama which will end with Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies? Only the Slash!Dragon will survive. Oh Torchwood, you have scarred me.

Comments

[angstzeit.livejournal.com]

Except for those who are superior duelers. Being right gives way to being better at dueling.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

"A dueling society is a polite society. "

Heinlein didn't know what he was talking about. I, too, used to romanticize dueling; then I read the excellent, highly recommended Gentlemen's Blood: A History of Dueling by Barbara Holland.

When dueling wasn't simply personal, it was a way for thugs and bullies to enforce their wills. It's a medieval remnant to believe that the person in the right is also the person who is better at shooting/fencing whatever. (Although clearly in your case this would be true. *g*) Duelists weren't polite; they were simply better at killing people, nor were the societies they lived in notably polite. (See: late-1800s France, where both the yellow press and dueling were endemic.)

At least two great men, the mathematician Évariste Galois and the poet Alexander Pushkin, died young in duels over love affairs; although society was impoverished by the gentlemen's loss, the manners of the public changed not a whit. (At least one of the ladies involved went on her merry way.)

Sorry to sidetrack with a rant; that book updated my head big-time.

[moonpupy.livejournal.com]

The actual quote is: "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." --Robert A Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon (1942)

Dueling has nothing to do with it. If you are willing to backup your beliefs with your life, your beliefs become much more tangible.

[ladyaelfwynn.livejournal.com]

I so agree with you. Current political debate is not so much debate as it is lying hysterics. It worked for the Salem Witch Trials, why not now?

I'm glad that Barney Frank was stern and called it like he saw it and I want more to do the same. To say, "Stop. This is unacceptable behaviour."

I just hope it works and quickly, I' really am tired of the batshit crazy that's invaded the news and rational discourse.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

Dueling, eh. I just want to smack mouthy Republicans with my glove.

(Seriously, though? Appalled is not a strong enough word. It's like half our elected officials have forgotten how to conduct themselves in that context. ARGH.)

Eek on the stabbing. Amused by the scheduling conflict.

[bethynyc.livejournal.com]

I blame you for my signing up for omnijaxual! I'm trying NOT to write fanfic--I have plays to write!

[isil-helyanwe.livejournal.com]

My my, CoE does appear to have disillutioned many people when it comes to ridiculous BBC drama. I try very hard to predict the outcome of Merlin according to the Arthurian cycle but it remains hilariously disconnected.

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE DISCOURSE, and I feel like people are engaging in it simply because there are apparently no repercussions whatsoever. It appalls me.

This, in so many ways. I suppose the ultimate rebellion nowadays is to learn one's manners and use them... *sigh*

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

Okay, I see my friendslist getting all excited about S2 of their new favorite cracky show, Merlin, but do I really need to tell you there will be one or two gutting deaths at the end of this season, and then when they bring it back for S3, it'll actually appear to be well-crafted television drama which will end with Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies? Only the Slash!Dragon will survive. Oh Torchwood, you have scarred me.

STOP THAT.

Dear Merlin: please stay cracky, implausible, questionally written, uneven and FUN AND SHINEE and full of OT4/OT5/OT6ishness.

Okay, I didn't actually mean to do that. Like Gareth, I will need to stop counting, ever.

[hyrkanian.livejournal.com]

Jack/Weeping Angels... oooooo. Yum.

[penguineggs.livejournal.com]

Without getting into the whole ethics of duelling thing, I think - with respect - that there's a bit of subtext which might be worth looking at. You state

I need to note that as I listen to the batshit insanity that is the healthcare debate ...that once upon a not very long time ago, calling someone out as a liar, particularly someone who was not lying, in public, was grounds for a duel at dawn. So would have been casting aspersions about place of birth, religious adherence and the personal grooming habits of one's children.

Now, that's true - but with a very important caveat. In duelling societies (and I have to say I know more about European duelling than US conventions on it, so I'm open to being corrected here) a gentleman only duelled with his equals. "I will send my friends to wait upon your friends" implied that everyone was in the same rank of society. One of the biggest ways of marking someone as a social inferior was publicly to carry out an act against them which would automatically entitle one's social equal to challenge you(getting ruffians to horsewhip them was one, but calling them a liar direct will do nicely).

That is, my reading (and I could be way off) is that in calling Obama a liar Wilson isn't just relying on duelling being dead to get away with it - he's ritually identifying Obama as someone not eligible to duel with him, even if society did still tolerate the custom.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

A dueling society is also a conformist society. Politeness itself is a function of potential repercussions, which the right-wing in your country (I am saying that with a completely straight face-left and right are relative terms,)doesn't believe exist.

They have yet to grasp emotionally that they've been thrown out of power, and that it was not an accident or a mistake. It was a direct result of their past actions and ongoing behavior.

Further/continued electoral defeats will eventually drive the point home to them. Eventually.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

re: merlin
bwahahahahaha!

•Okay, we are not going on the Cunard cruise.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Oh, gosh, I'm sorry! That's disappointing.
Will the possible cruise in January not be with Cunard?

[malle-babbe.livejournal.com]

WRT to dueling and the image of Southern "gentility", I think you are giving Rep. Wilson and his fellow South Carolinian statesmen too much credit.

Exhibit A) Senator Charles Sumner (R-MA) getting nearly beaten to death by Senator Preston Brooks (D-SC) on the floor of the Senate. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sumner#Antebellum_career_and_attack_by_Preston_Brooks)

I would have loved to have listened in on the conversation between Wilson and Rahm Emmanuel...

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

# Okay, I see my friendslist getting all excited about S2 of their new favorite cracky show, Merlin, but do I really need to tell you there will be one or two gutting deaths at the end of this season, and then when they bring it back for S3, it'll actually appear to be well-crafted television drama which will end with Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies? Only the Slash!Dragon will survive. Oh Torchwood, you have scarred me.

My money is on Uther and Gaius both being toast by the end of this season. But that's because of the whole "father figures must die to allow the boys to become men" thing. I think that the legend provides Arthur, Merlin, Gwen and Morgana with some degree of protection though -- even though the show doesn't stick closely to the legend, I think they're keeping that much of it intact. But then again, I didn't think Ianto was going to die either...

The show that has me really worried is Being Human -- I am totally convinced that George is going to die at some point, and it's all Torchwood's fault.

[gwyd.livejournal.com]

I'm rather glad I wasn't the only one who reacted to the "Liar" thing with an image in my head of Obama calmly standing, striding over, and slapping him with a glove.