The End of Time, pt. 1

[rm]

OMGWTFBBQ!!!!



Well, hrrrrr.

1. I think it's too ambitious. This already feels like a three-parter, but it only has two parts. This really needed to ramp up into what it is, the intensity got too high too fast.

2. The quiet emo moments were really the best. Man, Ten crying is HOT. And all that Ood shit was creepy.

3. John Simm is a really good actor. And it looks like filming this vacillated between really fun and completely sucktacular. All that food stuff. Food scenes SUCK.

4. OMG, the porn. THE PORN. That little smile on the Master's face when he was being buckled into the straight jacket. Hello, hello, hello. HELLO.

5. No Jack yet. This is good. This means he may be there for the regeneration, this is my hope.

6. This really is pretty damn audacious. And the rebirth of Gallifrey/Timelords is a really smart plot line since the Doctor is getting close to the limit unless the council or whatever it is grants him some more. Er, yeah, this is the first time I've really felt stymied by my lack of old who knowledge.

7. So that first shit with the regeneration of the Master? What a waste of Lucy Saxon. What was with all the women basically being witches with potions? And "The Book of Saxon"? What now? The prison was named Broadfell? Seriously? I've never found RTD to be more misogynistic than he is fucked up (i.e., his issues as a writer tend to be more interesting to me than offensive), and this happened. Dude, REALLY?

8. OBAMA, WTF? Actually, could a Brit living in Britain currently help me out here? How is Obama perceived? Was this satire that made sense to you all in an eye-rolling at the believe he can fix everything thing or what? I was like confused. A lot confused. Also I hate when they do scenes that are supposed to be White House press conferences and of course everything looks wrong.

9. Naismith = ne Smith? Also, woah, incesty with the daughter there.

10. OMG, Whoniverse wardrobe department, I love you. But "The Master Race"? Seriously? You went there? Man. Really?

11. I'm glad Ianto got to miss this one, such as it is.

Woah.

Comments

[better-late24.livejournal.com]

God, Ten crying was really hot. I'm there with you. And all the stuff he was saying about how regeneration is a death, that he still dies...OW. Totally makes it even harder for me to say goodbye to Ten.

That Timelords stuff? HOLY SHIT. What the hell is going to happen with that?

And the Obama stuff was really, really confusing to me. Like, wait, what? Do they care about our President?

[phaetonschariot.livejournal.com]

Like, wait, what? Do they care about our President?

Pretty much the whole world cares about your President, because your Presidents tend to do things like start huge wars that affect the entire world economy. We sort of have to. As far as I'm aware, pretty much all of the non-American people I know wanted Obama as President.

[smirnoffmule.livejournal.com]

Just FYI, the prison being called Broadfell was a nod to Broadmoor, which is a real and famous high security psychiatric hospital.

Re Obama, no, I think we just haven't got over thinking how cool he is yet.

ETA: And by famous I mean, this is a reference designed for UK viewers to get, not OMG you should know that.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Ah, well that's a little less wonky then.

[penguineggs.livejournal.com]

Seconded. While I agree the general tenor of RTD's rampant misogyny if he'd wanted to give it the connotation argued for it would have been Bintfell. The Broadmoor reference is particularly likely given that broad isn't expecially common as UK slang for a woman (and is definitely an Americanism) and "fell" and "moor" are both UK words deriving from the same Northern English dialect, and hence ultimately from Old Norse.

[pocketmouse]

That was exactly my thought with the food. There's a reason Simm's burger looks different from the other homeless guys'.

Ten breaking down in the pub was hot, and I really loved everything Simm is bringing to this.

Old Who canon basically boils down to 'la la la -- oh look, this looks like a convenient plot point to use!' The 13 lives is the standard that we've heard, but there have been other cases, and there's a whole bunch of weird shit, but I basically believe that the producers/writers are just going to make up some technobabble to do whatever they want there.

I really hated the whole Book of Saxon everything, but I do like that at least Lucy wasn't on Saxon's side. The rest was complete WTF.

I don't even know what's going on. There's so much of this that doesn't make any sense to me. I'm hoping part 2 will draw a lot of stuff together, because this sounds like throwing all your script ideas into the word processor and hitting 'frappe.'

[rm.livejournal.com]

I have done food scenes, albeit ones not as grotesque as that. But man, I never, ever wanted to look at hors d'oevres EVER AGAIN.

[woogledesigns.livejournal.com]

Why is everyone going on about how hot the Doctor was when he cried? Would it be okay to being up hot hot a female actor looked when she cried?

Another reading of the women and Broadfell (why are you objecting to the name- it seems to deliberately evoke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadmoor_Hospital to me?)is that they are all empowered, they are the agents of the plot and capable, between them, of the widest range of moral actions- from corruption to madness to responsibility and sacrifice. That the master picks one gender over another to subordinate or enslave might also be read as a particular sign of his perversion or evil. Later we see women in more powerful positions- the female apparition to Wilf, the return of the Doctor Donna and Abigail, who is the center of her world or limitless resource.

I was much more cross with the bum-pinching, because if you inverted the genders it would be considered unacceptable, and yet, apparently old ladies are not subject to the same ethical sanctions as old men (or young men). That, as I see it, is as bad as saying women aren't capable of being responsible for their own actions, which is much more perniciously misogynistic in my view than evoking the fantastical imagery of witchcraft.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I'd be fine with someone saying a crying chick was hot if the context was similar (i.e., not because of violence or weakness, but confronting destiny). Also People tend to find peopel going against type hot -- i.e., a woman being stronger than we expect or a man being more emotional.

I thought the bum pinching thing was extremely annoying. It is a testament to the sheert WTFery of this episode that that didn't even make my list.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

I'm about to re-watch it in a few minutes with the boyf (who was out doing boyf things up until about 15 minutes ago), so it's possible I'll see some things the second time around. Thoughts:

- I love, love the TARDIS in the stained glass. And Wilf. OMG, Wilf. And his oldster network. And him complaining that the TARDIS is messy. <3

- I sort of like being proved wrong about who it was who picked up the (one true) ring. I'd been sure it was Lucy or maybe the Rani. For it to be some kind of batshit human agent was unexpected but feasible.

- I agree, what a waste of Lucy. Though thinking about her kind of breaks my heart, like the Doctor should have done something to help her in the same way he kept trying to save the Master. It's unjust and awful in that accidental Time Lord cruelty sort of way. You can't notice every insect beneath your feet.

- In defense of the "WTF?!" witchery with the resurrection, that's not out of bounds with the Master. He's done some very strange things in the past to evade death. I mean, he was a black sludge that turned into Eric Roberts for a while.

- The women thing, though? Yeah. Grargh.

- And yet, Donna.

- Tonally, a lot of this feels like the last two episodes of Doctor Who S3. Just based on the high weirdness and audacity fronts. Some of that is probably a casting thing (Simm!Master, Lucy, presidents, oh noes humanity, the 'bwuh, science?' thing with Time Lords, etc.)

- The Obama thing is a bit odd, yes. Considering the production cycle, it's possible RTD was writing this during the "he's gonna fix eeeeeeeverything" phase, but I'm curious.

- Poor scared Ten. Poor, poor Ten. Wilf is exactly who he needs to be with.

- Woman in white = the Rani?

- Gallifrey = heroes or villains? I can't tell yet.

- I NEED TO GO SHOPPING. Though not for much. I just changed into something suspiciously workable...

[woogledesigns.livejournal.com]

for Gallifrey heroes or villains I would strongly suggest looking at the latest Doctor Who Confidential: Lords and Masters.

[hobbitblue.livejournal.com]

The Obama thing is probably RTD trying to be hip and up to date, like all the references to chavs and the Big Brother etc gameshows in the first series, which is just going to date it *horribly*, made me wince as it was.

After all the years of Bush when we were just basically waiting to see what he'd screw up next, and when the next world war would break out thanks to an idiot in charge of the free world, everyone loves Obama. And I think we still think he's going to fix things, or at least make a stab..

[therealycats.livejournal.com]

Now that I think about it, I'm disappointed they mentioned Obama by name. The last President they showed CLEARLY wasn't Bush, and I know damn well that Harriet Jones, Prime Minister has never been PM. All of these fictional political figures, and suddenly a real one gets thrown in? Makes no sense.

[laufeyette.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you wrote this. Can I just like, quote everything you said here in my own entry?

In other words, I agree with everything you said. The resurrection of the Master was so... what? It could have been handled so much better.

I really wanted to be a mess after this, but I'm just confused. And still giggling about the fake!Obama. Wow.

Loved the 'quiet' scenes between the Master and the Doctor (and the Doctor and Wilf).

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

Ten crying = me crying. Actual tears. I started to sob hysterically.
Everything else = really? Really? This is how you decided to do this? REALLY????

Uh. Yeah. Now I'm heartbroken, and like wtf?!

[rm.livejournal.com]

RTD can either salvage this by pulling something out of his ass (i.e., maybe it's the first part, not the second part that's fucked up this time) or we're going to have a lot of fixing shit to do.

I'm pretty sure, BTW, that Jack shows up it will bevery post-COE and his departure from Earth, since he won't have turned into the Master. Hahahaah, but Gwen did. Hahahaahahah.

But tragic, sad Ten! That was our Ten! And did you see the preview with his face all bruised? HOT.

[little-iago.livejournal.com]

I'm glad Ianto got to miss this one, such as it is.

I had the exact same thought. As much as I miss him, I imagine a Ianto turning into The Master mid-coitus would have been a wee bit traumatizing for Jack.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Jack is gonna be pretty trauamatized by a planet of Masters.

[demotu.livejournal.com]

I feel like that whole episode was an extended build up to the "master race!!!!" punchline. Odd.

And since I watched Water of Mars and then this in a row, this one definitely is far more of RTD's OMGWTFBBQ let's throw everything and the kitchen sink into the specials special.

[austengirl.livejournal.com]

I feel like that whole episode was an extended build up to the "master race!!!!" punchline.

That is pretty much exactly what my husband said (he's not really a DW fan).

The scene with Wilf and the Doctor in the cafe was by far my favorite part of the whole episode, the emotion there was palpable and real. Bernard Cribbins is ace. And Donna...I can't see this ending well for her. :( Not that it's going to end well for anyone from the looks of it.

Re: Obama: I believe this was filmed at least a few months ago, so I'm sure it was still in the 'fervent optimism' phase, though RTD might have been slyly commenting on the messianic hopes pinned on Obama. Then again, he might have been as excited about it as the rest of the world that someone not-Bush was in charge and felt compelled to include reference to it in the script. I agree that it dates the episode and the press room looked kind of...inauthentic?

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

OMG, I thought the first half of this episode was just... stupid. And the Obama stuff was WTF. And all the eating stuff... gave me flashbacks to the worst Merlin episode ever.

But I loved Wilf and the scene between the Doctor and Wilf in the cafe was just gorgeous. I have to wonder if any of the Doctor's other companions have been protected in some way, or if it was just Donna because of her part-Time Lord brain.

[therealycats.livejournal.com]

I think it was just Donna. And Wilf because he was in that...whatever it was. At first I thought it was that thing from CoE that the 456 or 789 or 123 or whatever the hell the alien junkies were called were in. I think the whole theme throughout series 4 with Donna and the Doctor being connected, because of what happened, is what they were hearkening back to there, with her not being affected.

[tree00faery.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen it yet, but now I really want to. Just watched Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead to tide myself over.

*off to find a torrent*

[sevendayloan.livejournal.com]

There is not enough WTF in the world.

[therealycats.livejournal.com]

Re: 7:
I'm disappointed in the complete lost opportunity they had with Lucy. I don't have anything specific in mind for what they could have done with her, but it could have been better than that. That whole plot point was just...weird. And completely nonsensical. I fucking lost it at "Book of Saxon."

10:
I knew they were going to go there as soon as it became clear what he was planning to do. Remember in Turn Left when they started shipping off the non-native residents and Wilf, tears in his eyes, commented that they "called them camps the last time"? I think they actually got a lot of flack for that. I loved seeing John Simm in all those costumes though. The gray dress and the suit that was like 4 sizes too big for him were my favorites, I think.

6:
I'm glad they're bringing the Time Lords back. I have to wonder if this was all RTD's doing or if it was something he was discussing with Steven Moffat. I really have no idea where Moffat is planning to take this, but I know he wants to differentiate between his vision and what RTD has done; I know he's like uber fanboy and I think he's a bit of a purist, however much possible that is with this show. I have a long standing agreement with Timothy Dalton, though, that I Do Not Want (because he is not Clark Gable nor Laurence Olivier, and can never live up to them and how dare he even try, and then of course the cinematic masterpiece that is The Beautician and the Beast), so that's conflicting, but I did think he did a good job with the narration at the beginning...it was like he was reading a fairy tale to a child, and I kind of liked that.

Overall, I guess I'd give it an 8.5. I loved the Doctor's interactions with Wilf, and I just really love Wilf and Donna anyway.

[wednesday]

So I went staggering down the stairs on watching the last twenty minutes of this (for various reasons, I need my significant plot points spoiled all to hell, so I haven't seen the rest yet) to inform my husband that DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE; THERE ARE TIME LORDS.

"Wait, really? With funny hats?"
"ACTUAL FUNNY HATS."
"I wonder if that's Moffat's doing?"
"I'm sure it is. Also, CAPES."

[tommx.livejournal.com]

This episode seems to confirm a suspicion that I've had for a very long time which is that the Time Lords didn't actually die with the Time War but are hiding out somewhere. The real question I have is, are they a worse threat than the Master? Timothy Dalton seems kind of evil himself.

Another thought I've had back in season 3 with the Master and his rhythm is that the rhythm is somehow related to a plan by the Time Lords to return from the dead. Again, the preview seems to suggest this.

The episode does have a lot of weak spots (I'm not nuts about the Master flying and basically being Electro) but it has good spots too. The Master's nostalgia with the Doctor was possibly my favorite moment in the whole episode.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Re: 2) I burst into tears as well. It was just one of those wrenching moments.

Re: 4) OMG, I could not stop thinking porny thoughts. My BFF and I kept looking at each other and then bursting into laughter.

Re: 7) Yeah, the whole thing there, I was thinking; Romana!? But nooooooo...

Re: 8) I can't speak as a Brit, but as a foreigner I can say that I was laughing so hard at this because there is a perception that Obama presented himself as a saviour to the whole world - so the interplay here was funneh!

Re: 9) Big Time on the Incest! I was sure that was his wife!

Re: 10) Please tell I wasn't the only one who flashed to John Barrowman and his performance in The Producers.

[elainasaunt.livejournal.com]

Re: 10) You were not.

[insomnia.livejournal.com]

Take a look at the last speech bit with Timothy "The Gallifreyan" Dalton though... Truly massive amounts of spittle are ejected from his mouth, which kind of took the glory out of his closing speech about the return of the Timelords.

Wha...?! Was Mr. Dalton working by the minute or something? Nobody wanted to tell him they should do a clean, non-loogied take?

I always thought it would be cool to meet Timothy Dalton. Now, though, if I do, I want to be sure to stand at least five metres back, just in case.

My 2 cents

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, the Obama stuff was weird. Considering the The Master killed the last president, even stranger.

Everyone turning into The Master was overkill. We just need a few episodes of excitement for David's last hurrah.

Well, now we know why Capt. Jack left Earth at the end of CoE, we need the alien heroes to be off planet for when everyone changed into The Master (race).

The conversations with the Doctor were pretty intense. I'm assuming The Doctor doesn't know when he's going to die/regenerate...

Totally something weird going on with that bad guy and his daughter.

I (sadly) don't think we're going to get all the guest stars I was hoping for in part two unless they make it a really really long episode.

Gary
http://GarySaid.com/

FYI, the confidential episode was as interesting (if not more) than the episode. I was disappointed they didn't cover more of The Master's special effects though.

Re: My 2 cents

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

re: Capt Jack
No, the Master Race crap didn't affect aliens. So Jack (in theory) would have been safe.

[miep.livejournal.com]

I have to say, I was left wondering how much original Who (drs 1-8) I ought to have in my memory banks to really get things.

I'm with you on much of the WTFery.

ALSO directv keeps missing out hte last 45 seconds of EVERY BLOODY THING I record off of BBCA. Really, really annoying. What did I miss?

[regyt.livejournal.com]

Re #4: oh oh oh yes. That wide buckled collar. The Master onna leash. Yum.

[virginia-fell.livejournal.com]

*finally watches the episode and can read this*

I really didn't expect this episode to turn into Being John Malkovich, but there we have it.

Ditto the creepy incesty stuff with Naismith and his daughter, too.

[timelady.livejournal.com]

Okay, I know I'm behind the time, but had to comment on the stuff from part one and didn't feel right tossing it into the part two posting.

And I know everyone will probably disagree with me but I thought outfitting the TARDIS with a car alarm is waaay too cheesy. As well as the Master Race line at the end.

Unfortunately I just didn't buy Timothy Dalton as the Time Lord President. I was nicknaming it "epic voice" each time he came on for the voice overs, which I thought was just over the top.

The mysterious lady bugged me too. Not for her acting. But because she reminded me of the mother on Two and a Half Men.

Not to mention all of the Obama stuff. It dates the show, and it wasn't true in general. As in, Obama giving a Christmas Day speach at the White House. Because he was in Hawaii for his Christmas vacation at around 4 on the Eve (and had the writers bothered to do their research, they would have realized he did this last year, too. Apparently england thinks of him with a lot higher esteem than I do).

[timelady.livejournal.com]

Also, the food scenes made me think they seemed to be turning the Master into Renfield, which certainly was sliding in the wrong direction.