[personal profile] rm
This is not a search for advice. This is a point of curiosity to me, because my education was sort of extreme and obsessive on this point, and it occurs to me that perhaps other fifth-graders were not scarred for life by writing papers that said things like "this author feels that Disney World would be an idea summer vacation destination for her family."

So, inquiring minds and all that....

[Poll #1563413]
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Date: 2010-05-12 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eandh99.livejournal.com
I'm with [livejournal.com profile] kathay in that much of my post-secondary education was not in English. In French the rules are somewhat different in that the passive voice is shunned (we have an indeterminate subject pronoun and an extensive range of pronominal verbs instead). Unless I am writing something specifically about my own experiences or opinions, I'll use the non-specific "on" and I teach my students to do so, which is an option no longer really valid in English, though I do know British people who use "one" in speech and in writing. Even in English, I'm not comfortable with passive voice and will go to considerable lengths to avoid it, but I know that doing so (and my fondness for complex sentences and semi-colons)can leave me with written English that seems overly formal.

What I've noticed in my students is an increasing tendency to write exactly as they speak, with extensive use not only of the first person pronoun but also of the two second-person pronouns (French has an informal, singular "you" and another form which can be formal or plural or both). My colleagues in English tell me much the same thing about undergraduate writing in English, where the passive voice ends up as the lesser of two evils. I do think there's a greater tolerance for "I" statements in current academic practice now than there was when I was a student 20-odd years ago. I wouldn't worry at all about "I" statements when you present this paper - if you're submitting it later for publication you might want to edit them down.

Date: 2010-05-12 06:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
Oh yes, "one". That's another relic of my Hewitt education I've largely tried to excise, but remains in my mind something I secretly believe is the only correct manner of expressing the things for which I'd use such a construction.

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Date: 2010-05-12 06:10 pm (UTC)
ext_107588: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ophymirage.livejournal.com
As an English major, I didn't really have to write a lot of subjective papers; when writing analytical essays, one tends to use formal constructions where necessary.

As a folklorist grad student, 'I' is acceptable, as long as it's preceded by a lengthy post-modernist introduction in which one exposes one's awareness of all one's own possible (imperialist, first-world, racist, sexist, classist, insider/outsider, etc.) biases and apologizes for the acts of observation and drawing conclusions based on said flawed perspective. "I" is thus understood to stand in for the lengthy explanatory assumptive intro throughout the rest of the paper. :)

Date: 2010-05-12 06:15 pm (UTC)
ktnb: a snow covered bridge and tree (Default)
From: [personal profile] ktnb
I had an amazing English teacher in 11th grade who made sure we knew that "I" was never acceptable in academic papers. It was a little different in college though because I majored in psych, and when you're talking about research and experiments that you've done yourself, it was considered all right to slip "I" in there every once in a while so things would make sense.

Date: 2010-05-12 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bodlon.livejournal.com
My answers conflict a little because I was taught conflicting things.

General consensus in my education was that using I in academic writing is generally verboten unless the piece is is specifically intended to be reflective. Even if one is referencing one's own research, the focus should be the instrument of research (assessment, reading, experiments, whatever) not the one who wields it.

Ideologically I haven't got strong feelings about this except that it helps separate the information from the individual in ways that are generally useful if everybody is doing good work and keeping things on the up-and-up instead of cooking the books. I shouldn't (unless I'm studying someone's particular work, or the work of certain people) need to care who's saying something as long as the work is good and reputable.

Date: 2010-05-12 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firefly124.livejournal.com
It was drilled into my head academically that there are very few situations in which "I" is appropriate in scholarly writing. That's carried over into professional life, where the standard, if you can't actually manage to avoid it altogether, is to say "this writer." (Of course, that clashes with the drive to avoid the passive voice and leads to endless wittering over it's stupider more professionally detached to write "It was observed that ..." or "This writer observed that ..." in log notes. Bloody log notes!)

Date: 2010-05-12 06:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iterum.livejournal.com
As I teach now, both as a writing instructor and as a grader commenting on papers written for other kinds of classes, it depends on the assignment and the discipline. A short history paper about, say, factors contributing to the fall of the Roman empire in the west wouldn't seem to have much room for personal statements beyond gratutious I thinks, while an analysis of a literary text might well. (This is, of course, separate from when I actually assign personal reminiscences in my writing class.)

All that said, for a conference paper that you will be presenting verbally, "this writer" is more likely to bug listeners than "I." When I worked as an editorial assistant at an academic journal, we had whole issues publishing conference proceedings; the first drafts, generally identical to the conference presentations, were usually full of first-person-y goodness and more conversational tones, but then they were whipped into more formal shape for publication.

My own academic writing dips into "as I shall show" and "I have argued elsewhere that" and so on, and no one has complained (although with my dissertation perhaps my committee was just happy that I finally wrote something at all).

Date: 2010-05-12 06:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fourzoas.livejournal.com
I used "I" in my dissertation (English) and teach my students to use it where and when appropriate.

Date: 2010-05-12 06:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wordsofastory.livejournal.com
You don't have an option for "is totally acceptable"! Because I find, in academic writing, repeated use of "the author" or other unnatural constructions to stand out, in a overly formal and stilted sort of way. (Of course, I was also taught never to use "I" in my pre-college education, but shockingly, sometimes high teachers are way incorrect).

It seems to have been a relatively recent change (but which I mean the last few decades), associated with the decline of the whole "science is totally objective!" thing, although it's rare to see anyone use "the author" constructions anymore, regardless of their specific feelings on the objectivity/positionality/relativism thing.

Date: 2010-05-12 06:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
I'm not sure what's more awesome, the fact of your enthusiasm (and relevant expertise) or the fact that I can get you to hold my hand while I use the scary "I".

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Date: 2010-05-12 06:47 pm (UTC)
pocketmouse: (fran_writing)
From: [personal profile] pocketmouse
I have vague rememberances of it being Not Allowed in high school and before that, but only because I (think?) I remember being surprised to find out in college that it was all right. I think it also depends on your area of concentration -- I never remember it being okay in scientific papers, but whole books are written using 'I' and 'we' in anthropology and archaeology. I think in theatre history texts it tended to be used only in parentheticals, footnotes, and other asides. No one really threw a shit fit either way, though.

Date: 2010-05-12 06:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] methleigh.livejournal.com
Is acceptable. If the academic work is opinion, I want to know about it and I like to see the author claiming opinion as opinion. I also find it more engaging to read (there is nothing wrong with being engaging, even in an academic piece.) I also can often accept it as a general stylistic choice independent of whether it is necessary to prove a point.

Date: 2010-05-12 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] byzantienne.livejournal.com
I was taught, in probably the same obsessive and deliberate fashion that you were (oh, NYC private schools) to never, ever use 'I'.

And then I got to college and had an actual professor of rhetoric, and he repurposed it for me. 'I' is occasionally immensely rhetorically effective and should be employed in such situations.

I very rarely use it in academic writing, but I don't find it egregious. Mostly, I don't use it unless I am attempting to claim authority or deliberately point out where my opinions differ from a specific historiographical school.

And yes, it still makes me nervous.

Date: 2010-05-12 07:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
In my case, I'm increasingly finding value in my paper of referencing the character death panel at Gallifrey and another discussion I had with someone there (there's this thing people keep saying, and kept saying to me at the con: "I was at work and had to go to the bathroom to cry" re: Ianto's death that's so specific and interesting as a way of people saying "this is not like crying at other movies/tv shows"). Since I was part of the discussion, it seems batshit crazy not to say "i" and yet the contortions have begun.

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Date: 2010-05-12 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thunderemerald.livejournal.com
I was pretty much taught "NO NO NEVER EVER," and I railed against it till graduation. It felt like I was being deprived of the right to an opinion.

My current job, reading other people's manuscripts, is a constant relief in this way. If I give people notes, they HAVE to be personal. It's all stuff like "when you pull focus away from this character, it's harder for me to relate to her," or "I was emotionall invested in this part, but that faded when this other bit went haywire." Hurray for getting paid to read fiction!

Date: 2010-05-12 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] therealycats.livejournal.com
In short, in high school we were taught that using first person in academic writing was a big no-no. I don't recall its ever being addressed in any of my college English classes, because they were primarily literature-based as opposed to language-based, however in some history electives that I took, "I" was all over the place. Since history used Turabian style, with which I was completely unfamiliar, and I was used to using MLA, MLA always wins out for me. To be honest it still kind of makes me cringe or annoyed when I see it, but eh, that's just me.

Date: 2010-05-12 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] browneyedgirl65.livejournal.com
I was taught not to do it...not in an obsessive manner, but the point was clear, both in K-12 and university classes. Somewhere along the line though, and no thanks to formal education, I've reached the point where I think it's really up to the author -- and it will work (or not; more often not) depending on just how good a writer the author is, what point is being made, and why the author has decided to inject her or him self directly into the work.

Date: 2010-05-12 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] browneyedgirl65.livejournal.com
(By way of background, I have a Masters degree (CS), was enrolled in a PhD program and have written several peer reviewed articles for journals in my degree. To this day I have remained employed in the academic world though I'm staff rather than faculty.)

Date: 2010-05-12 07:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kalichan.livejournal.com
pre-11th & 12th grade - "I" - never acceptable. "No one cares what you think."

11th & 12th grade + college -- Sometimes acceptable. "Now, we begin to care what you think, but use sparingly. Try to avoid."

grad school: everyone uses judicious mixture of "I", "we", "one" etc all the time. "Now, we only care what you think vis a vis your original contribution to the field."

I've never seen "the author" construction used much; it seems a bit clunky.

Date: 2010-05-12 07:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kalichan.livejournal.com
Also, the "I", "we", "one" or what have you helps the writer (ha) delineate more precisely the tone, and where they are with their relationship to their audience.

"What I wish to suggest is that..." is different to "We can see from the following data that.." and "One finds that when performing the experiment..." is yet another beast, y'know?

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Date: 2010-05-12 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] griffen.livejournal.com
The alternative to the use of "I" or "we" in academic and scholarly writing is the extensive use of the passive voice. I'll take first-person (singular or plural) over the passive voice any day - and the use of "one" is both dated and pretentious, IMNSHO.
Edited Date: 2010-05-12 07:55 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-05-12 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heartofoshun.livejournal.com
So funny that you should bring this up! Yes, I do lose sleep over the question. I write a fairly academically rigorous monthly character biography for a Tolkien website (Silmarillion Writers Guild). I torture myself over this question every month, because I often make heretical controversial statements in these (heavily footnoted, of course!). I am often tempted to add something in the first person defending some of my arguments or claiming them as highly personal but well-supported. I do occasionally, but try to hold it to a minimum. It's a very geekish, sometimes pretentious fandom.

Date: 2010-05-12 08:04 pm (UTC)
ext_3467: Mathematician says, "oh hey, I didn't see you guys all the way over there." (mathematician)
From: [identity profile] go-gentle.livejournal.com
I was a math major in college, and from my reading and writing for math classes I picked up such phrases as "We now consider the case where....", which seemed to be the standard style in that field. (Even when the author is only one person - I always assumed the 'we' included the author and the reader.) I try not to let in drift into my writing for other classes, but sometimes it just seems the most natural now, especially when I'm writing an extremely logical paper. (Not that I try to write illogical papers, it's just that some are structured like a proof and some are not.)

Date: 2010-05-13 02:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] goseaward.livejournal.com
I was wondering if someone else would point out the use of "we" instead of "I"! :D I don't think I've seen a paper published since 2000 at least that used passive voice; everyone goes first person plural. (I'm an astronomer.)

Date: 2010-05-12 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] angstzeit.livejournal.com
I don't remember being specifically told anything about this (unlike second person). But I did, nevertheless, internalize a prohibition against "I" somewhere along the line. I remember thinking it quite cheeky when I used it in a short paper once in college.

Date: 2010-05-12 08:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bare-bear.livejournal.com
I'm currently working on a Masters in Geochemistry, and with very few exceptions, 'I' is never used in journal articles and other scientific writing. If I've been doing a lot of scientific writing lately, I have a very hard time putting personality back into emails and such, and my everyday vocabulary involves much more complex terminology! My Mom and Brother usually avoid talking to me when I get like that. lol!

Date: 2010-05-12 09:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fmanalyst.livejournal.com
Oh, another thing about not using "I". Students tend to make what they write about them instead of what the paper is supposed to be about. So prohibiting "I" is often about saying to the student, "It's not about you. It's about the subject."

Date: 2010-05-12 09:24 pm (UTC)
mneme: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mneme
I don't remember lengthly discourses on "I" in any of my education, but I certainly got the impression that you shouldn't use it unless your subjective opinion or experiences are a signficiant part of your point.

I don't see that "the author" and similar constructions are ever useful except as an affectation--the purpose of avoiding first person in formal writing isn't because "'I' is abominable" but because personal opinion or experiences is frequently irrelevant to the subject of formal writing.

Date: 2010-05-12 09:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] phaetonschariot.livejournal.com
In university we could use it in footnotes. Footnotes were pretty much anything goes.

(That wasn't exactly lengthy, I know.)

Date: 2010-05-12 10:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] phonoirlex.livejournal.com
Pre-college, I was told emphatically that using "I" in formal writing, with the exception of the personal essay, was a sign of a lack of imagination and an overbearing ego and that it would weaken any argument I made.

In college as an English major, it depended on the professor's area of expertise. The professors who focused on older works generally wanted "I" used sparingly if at all.

My postmodern literature professor, however, told me that not using "I" weakened my argument by indicating a lack of confidence in my work. She also said not using "I" exhibited a lack of understanding of postmodernism itself by pretending to objectivity when, of course, there can be none.

I had real issues with that; I had it too ingrained that using "I" in formal writing is just not done.

My professors outside the English department never addressed the matter, at least not to the class as a whole.

On the other hand, I've never had any teacher or professor suggest using "this writer" or "the author." Pre-college teachers didn't want students to refer to themselves at all. My professors preferred "I" to referring to oneself in the third person.

Date: 2010-05-12 10:36 pm (UTC)
used_songs: (Kate lie cheat steal)
From: [personal profile] used_songs
When I was in grad school (English degree) I wasn't allowed to use it. My partner is in grad school now (Bilingual-Bicultural Studies) and uses it willy-nilly in her papers and gets all A's. So I don't know what to think.
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