matters sartorial

[rm]

Ages ago, I paid for several shirts from Duchess Clothier, but held off on making actual decisions about them because I had no time. That dragged on and on and on as things kept popping up in my schedule that had me running around with my head cut off, and because of Very Specific Ideas in my head and the thing where they had to keep emailing me fabric swatches etc.

Finally, I made decisions. And then couldn't find the envelope I put the swatches in. Thankfully, however, Seyta is far more organized than me and was able to remember which fabrics I meant by my description and sent me images to confirm.

I realize colors are so not consistently true online, but the fabrics for my next three dress shirts are below.


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Yes, pink. I decided my masculinity could handle it. I look really fucking good in pink is the tragic fucking truth of the matter. Purple! Because wow, I need something even more internally awkward than that brick shirt, eh? Blue, because I had to. I tried to resist, and I failed (seriously, Seyta regularly tries to talk me out of owning More Blue Shirts and she's entirely right). At least it has a texture pattern!

As ever, all french cuffs. Toying with a bit wider spread on the collars (this is what all this time in the UK is doing to me). Am dithering as usual about buttons (as unobstrusive as possible on the pink and the purple; possibly white on the blue -- yeah, I suck, I know) and pockets (slightly different ones on each probably, like my last set of shirts). But damn pleased to have new shinies. Totally won't be done in time for Bristol. Totally will be with me at Dragon*Con.

Comments

[arielstarshadow.livejournal.com]

<3 French cuffs

You look absolutely amazing in a suit, by the by.

[heavenscalyx.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the name of your tailor! I think this site will make akycha very happy -- she has been wanting to dandy me up for a while now -- and it makes me happy because I would very much like a suit that fits me, instead of being too tight at the hips and frontispieces (I fit fairly well into most men's trousers styles, but if I don't want to look as rumpled as I usually do, well, that's another matter).

[rm.livejournal.com]

Duchess is wonderful. The quality of work for the price is phenomenal and Seyta has been incredibly awesome about figuring out how to structure garments so that they hide my very feminine figure (since I'm not trying to do the chick in a suit thing when I wear suits). They are based in Portland but occassionally come out here, but do remarkably well via email/snail mail. I have two three-piece suits from them and a tux, in addition to a bunch of shirts. If you do wind up getting something from them, please say hi from me.

[jeliza]

Oh my. Portland is within a day's drive, and I could get properly fitted clothing, instead of giving the salesmen at Men's Wearhouse conniptions just to get shirts that almost fit. (Actually, a few have been quite helpful and mellow, but it's always a gamble.) Thank you *so much*.

[rm.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. I was very much like "er, how do you feel about doing this?" and awkward awkward when I first contacted her, but she's been truly awesome and enthused about the whole thing. I've been sending all my genderqueer/bendy/butch and trans people to her slowly but surely (so if you do go, send my regards.)

[vashtan.livejournal.com]

Damn, I wish they were in the UK...

[fabricdragon.livejournal.com]

<3 french cuffs. and they give you so many OPTIONS with cuff links.

now being the girly girl that i am, but looking really good in standard button down shirts... i would totally go for tuxedo buttons so i could change them out....
or have pale lavender buttons on the purple or pink shirt.

and the blue shirt would absolutely not have white buttons
dark blue maybe? or lavender? or pink......

sigh...... i did my school report on savile Row. i SO want to get custom shirts

[rm.livejournal.com]

I saw you did that report! I need to go wandering down there on the next London trip.

[fabricdragon.livejournal.com]

grin
kicked but and took names. yes ... i sweated that one, now i am dripping blood out of my forehead over the remaining two finals and projects..... sigh

if you do go (and i strongly suggest you do)
Anderson & Sheppard ( http://www.anderson-sheppard.co.uk/ ) they actually mailed me photos and sample stuff!

maurice sedwell (www.savilerowtailor.com i think)
and
Henry Poole ( http://www.henrypoole.com/index.cns )

all went way out of their way to help. and if you get into any of those shops, say hello for me!
sigh
one of these days, seriously... i WILL get to London and go there.

anyway... pink is not automatically girly in a shirt. i know several men who have pink dress shirts. you do have to have the right coloring, of course.
and as was said by a fashion expert: "Pink is the Navy Blue of India" in India the "trust me" respectable businessman solid dependable color is.. pink.
mind you most of the Hindu/Indians i know have coloring that works well with pink ...and that peculiar yellow that i always like on other people, but cannot wear ....

[rm.livejournal.com]

I don't normally think pink is an exclusively girl color, but when female and trying to pass as male there are a lot of cues one tries to avoid, pink being on the list.

And thank you for the links. That's quite helpful.

[fabricdragon.livejournal.com]

i have generally found a fedora to be an excellent accessory..... male or female.

well.. yes pink is a "girl cue" in general... but i guess since my usual banker wears it so much, as do several other men i know, i just dont "see" it. but then it IS different when you are trying to manage .... umm. persona? as opposed to being naturally/evidently male.

the guy with five o'clock shadow and a masculine face can obviously get away with more....

just not used to thinking about it i suppose.....
still, there are so many great ties that go with pink shirts.

pick up a copy, if you can, of the book "The London Cut" it has complete reviews and style discussions of various shops on/near savile row. including teh shop (briggs?) that made all the avengers trick umbrellas... the company that makes Bond's shirts.. and the hat shop that invented Indiana Jones' hat.

also custom shoemakers...
siiiiiiiigh
pack me in your luggage next time you go over????

[rm.livejournal.com]

Custom shoes are so on my list of things to do. But it's easier for me to justify dropping $600 - $1500 on a suit than on a pair of shoes.

[bugeyedmonster.livejournal.com]

Custom shoe makers????

I've often said that it's good I have very odd feet (short and wide) otherwise I'd be the next Imelda Marcos. It's hard to find wide widths when you're below a size 7 (US) shoe.

Dang... now I'm wondering if there are any custom shoe makers in D/FW.... I've seen some on Etsy, but I want heels, dagnabbit!

[fabricdragon.livejournal.com]

there probably are. but i woudl advise this.
get the book out of the library. get the webpage for the shoe people (if you cant get the book i can get you the url later after class)
ten ask them if they travel..... many of the savile row folks do quarterly trips to the usa and i tHINK D/FW was on at least one of the suit makers agendas.. so maybe they do a trip that way.

if not, i bet they know someone.....

[bugeyedmonster.livejournal.com]

Pink seems to look good on lots of folks. I've seen very pale folks able to wear it, to very dark complexions looking fantastic in it. The only time pink seems to look weird is when you put it on someone with red hair. (Natural red head, I mean.)

[fabricdragon.livejournal.com]

natural red heads should wear a red variant that works with their coloring... maroon is often the best choice. i have met a red head that looked stunning in hot pink, BUT her coloring was.... different.
pink too often plays up the pink in the skin and makes them look flushed.

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

I adore that shade of purple.

[fabricdragon.livejournal.com]

m doing a fashion design board, with that shade of purple. if my monitor is right.. in several of the outfits.
it is a very good "neutral" purple......and not as severe as a black

[wcg.livejournal.com]

I should get myself a purple shirt. That's a great color.

Also, I've kept a pink shirt in my wardrobe for the last several decades. It's a great color. I go a few shades darker in my blue shirts, but that's mostly because the sky blue reminds me of uniform shirts at Catholic school.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I could not wear anything navy blue for similar reasons until just a few years ago. I was a fool, because it looks quite good on me, but ISSUES.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I once promised I'd never wear navy blue again (my Mother always stuffed me into it because it was "serviceable") but it really is flattering. But lots and lots of issues!

[weirdquark]

Yes, pink. I decided my masculinity could handle it.

I remember back in fifth or sixth grade there was a boy who had a shirt striped in green and pink. Kids kept asking him if a red shirt had bled on it or something (it had a white collar, so no) and he kept telling them, "no, it's pink. Pink. It's pink," in the nearest equivalent to a "get over it, you fuckers" tone of voice as you get when you're eleven.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

Purple!!!

And wow, I didn't know that Duchess sold suspender/braces. I know what I'm getting my father for Christmas.

[rm.livejournal.com]

The braces are new, I think. I keep meaning to take a looksy since mine are just from suspenderstore.com

[dremiel.livejournal.com]

That purple is gorgeous! And I love spread collars!

[lawnrrd]

I was told, long ago, that pink was considered a very conservative color for a man's dress shirt. Possibly this no longer holds, especially considering the modern forms that "OMG PLZ DONT THINK I HAVE TEH GHEY TNX" takes. Still, based on this, you may choose to consider your wearing a pink dress shirt as an adherence to a classical expression of your masculinity rather than a challenge to it.

Or not.

[rm.livejournal.com]

This is true. Even, technically in America. Except, you know, not.

[ljs-lj.livejournal.com]

Yes, pink. I decided my masculinity could handle it.

Over the years I've occasionally watched some permutation of the BBC News on our local PBS station and it seems that 4 days out of 5 the anchor - whichever anchor of the many who host the program from time to time - will be wearing a shirt that is some shade of pink. And most if not all of the anchors are male. Often, the tie is some shade of pink as well. I think pink's making a comeback in men's clothing.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I KNOW! I drove Patty crazy in London because I kept exclaiming at all the pink and bright colors and RIDICULOUS ties on the newscasters. It would never be allowed here.

[austengirl.livejournal.com]

So true with the ridiculous newsreader ties. I found them hideous when I first moved here, but I guess you get used to it. I still remark if Jon Snow on Channel4 news is sporting a partiicularly outrageous one.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Wow, the whole "pink shirt =/= masculinity" is really strong in the States.

I've grown up with my dad (now in his 60's) wearing pink shirts, my brother-in-law wears pink shirts... every where men wear pink shirts. Pink may be Girl!Cue at a young age, but I think outside the States, colour is more flexible in adults - only my cousins in the US (and very conservative and old-fashioned South African family friends) ever commented to my dad about wearing (with regularity) a pink shirt.

I find it so odd. Purple always seems, to me, a more feminine colour on men.

Ah, culture differences...

[rm.livejournal.com]

Very strong. I remember when pink started to come back in for men in the 80s and there was lots of "is this okay?" "can you still be masculine?" etc. This was also the era of "Real Men Eat Quiche" though. Now I don't think pink dress shirts are remarked upon as long as they are not worn often and the guy is otherwise conventionally masculine. There are still industries however where you could NEVER wear one without negative impact.

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

Ooh, those swatches look great. Is the pink a herringbone?

Re: color and gender, have you seen this Straight Dope article about pink vs. blue baby clothes?

[rm.livejournal.com]

Herringbone, yes! And yes.

[austengirl.livejournal.com]

laughingacademy beat me to it, I was going to ask if the pink was a herringbone. I love the texture. I can see the purple one looking really good on you as well.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yup, herringbone.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

I like the slight herringbone on the pink, and I always think flat purple is best for dress shirts -- patterned purple gets into this weird disco/nightclub thing. That's a lighter blue than I expected for you, but it could just be my laptop, which does tend to skew colour. The pattern on the blue -- is that a white chalk-stripe?

[rm.livejournal.com]

The stripe is a slightly shiny blue of the same shade. It's heartbreakingly retro. I was about to be all "pastels and light shades look really good on me" but the fact is I have one of those skin tones where there are no bad colors.

I agonized that the purple was too bright but finally got over it.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

The purple looks fine from here, frankly, but that's an Internet Opinion sure nuff. :D And it's in the spectrum where the tone can change based on what's worn around it.

I imagine I'll find the blue a bit more attractive when it's actually built and not a swatch (I just prefer the range of blues around Royal -- though I hate navy the way I don't hate any other colour, which is odd).

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

Pink used to be the "boy color" anyway. But it flatters nearly all skin tones and goes with lots of things. My husband really likes it!

I think the purple will look particularly awesome on you.

[virginhuntress.livejournal.com]

I LOVE french cuffs. :)

Those colors are fantastic, I like them regardless of who is wearing them (male/female). I really REALLY hate that colors are somehow restricted to gender. :(

[adelheid-p.livejournal.com]

Pink and charcoal grey look great together no matter what gender. I, too, know men who regularly wear some shade of pink.

It's good to know about this place and their willingness to provide you with exactly what you want.