rm ([personal profile] rm) wrote2010-06-14 11:19 pm

more Angel

We just watched "Slouching Towards Bethlehem".



What's with Connor grabbing Cordelia's breast?

Hi, retconned Cordelia. How are you? Angel, YOU ARE SUCH A DICK FOR TRYING TO GET WITH HER WITHOUT GIVING HER THE SCOOP ON HOW YOU WEREN'T TOGETHER. Of course, Angel's a dick because he's an idiot, not because he's malicious, but that's fiction for you.

I absolutely, positively COMPLETELY believed every moment of Lorne's horror at the revelations of Cordelia's singing. Something's coming, and I believe him. This is notable, because I wonder when, if ever, we believed that "the 21st century is when everything changes" over on Torchwood with that same sense of visceral truth.

I can't decide if Wesley/Lilah is just that masterfully executed or if it's pushing every single button I have, not in a hotness way (although, damn) but in an emotional way.

The thing with the bet about "relationship" (and as much as I say RTD is a Wesley/Angel shipper, I think a lot of what is at least plausible off-screen in S1 of Torchwood between Jack/Ianto comes from Lilah/Wesley, and I think it continues to inform certain aspects of the relationship through the other seasons we well) and then Wesley assuming that Lilah didn't just drop the dollar because she dropped the dollar. Always with the self-hatred.

There are even smaller things, like the shot of his back when he's supposedly sleeping. Sure, it turns out Lilah is entirely playing him (and he's trying to play her less successfully), but she's playing the audience and herself too, because the camera looks at that sleeping man and tells us about the affection we hold for those who sleep or have slept next to us -- whether they deserved that affection or not. That shot, which seems trivial, is amazing because it feels so goddamn familiar.

And what's going on with gender in the Lilah/Wesley thing is ridiculously compelling. Because Wesley? Is neither feminized nor delicate (CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW, FANDOM?), but he's the one with the arguably inappropriate emotional attachment (not that I think Lilah isn't involved too, I think she clearly is, but she can put it back in the box when her objectives need her too; Wesley can't), the one who keeps coming back for more because it may not be what he wants but he's convinced himself it's enough, and the one that's using the person he's sleeping with as another subject on which to pride himself on his endurance.

Maybe it's just the shame of my 20s, but I'd have a hard time believing that others don't feel a certain sort of resonance when they look at the quieter moments of the Lilah/Wesley mess -- even the lighting, the body language, the weird territory shit they each do with their apartments, and it makes me want to tell you about an affair I had when I was 20. What is that?

And Lilah. She's puts her head on his chest and likes him too much and yet, in the narrative we're used to elsewhere, she's the man. And we never, ever call her a bitch. It's a rather remarkable thing.

[identity profile] kel-reiley.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
dude, srsly, Just. Keep. Watching.

[identity profile] tommx.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 01:57 pm (UTC)(link)
What she said. This turned out to be my favorite season of Angel. (though a lot of that is accounted for by seeing Lorne singing in Vegas)

[identity profile] smirnoffmule.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 03:23 am (UTC)(link)
Lilah is unbelievably awesome.

[identity profile] bethynyc.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 03:25 am (UTC)(link)
I cannot *wait* to hear what you think of "Spin the Bottle" when you get to it. Cannot. Wait.

And yes, there was that resonance. The idea that this is completely and utterly Not Right, but it feels better than inner emptiness.
Edited 2010-06-15 03:25 (UTC)

[identity profile] taffimai.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 03:53 am (UTC)(link)
I adore Lilah/Wesley.

[identity profile] stephl.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 03:53 am (UTC)(link)
And what's going on with gender in the Lilah/Wesley thing is ridiculously compelling. Because Wesley? Is neither feminized nor delicate (CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW, FANDOM?), but he's the one with the arguably inappropriate emotional attachment (not that I think Lilah isn't involved too, I think she clearly is, but she can put it back in the box when her objectives need her too; Wesley can't), the one who keeps coming back for more because it may not be what he wants but he's convinced himself it's enough, and the one that's using the person he's sleeping with as another subject on which to pride himself on his endurance.

Everything Wesley gets is what he believes he deserves, and this is one more thing that falls in that category. Or -- I should say, it's not a sense of "you get what you deserve," but more a sense of "you deserve what gets YOU."

Oh, Wes.

[identity profile] sevendayloan.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 04:02 am (UTC)(link)
I think you know by now that I could talk about this for hours, but right now there's nothing I can do but ditto [livejournal.com profile] kel_reiley and say Just. Keep. Watching.

I can't say if you'll love it or hate it, but I think you'll be fascinated. Gender roles and dollar bills and quiet moments, oh my!

What's with Connor grabbing Cordelia's breast?
... you'll see.

[identity profile] ravenskye8.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 04:07 am (UTC)(link)
Oh. Just. Wait.

[identity profile] stardragonca.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 05:16 am (UTC)(link)
Hang on. Seriously.
elisi: Edwin and Charles (Father and son by andemaiar)

[personal profile] elisi 2010-06-15 06:19 am (UTC)(link)
I want to re-watch S4 now, just for all the Wes/Lilah parts. (Not that I don't like the rest, but those are my favourites.)

[identity profile] nonsecateur.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 10:52 am (UTC)(link)
This might be my favourite Buffyverse relationship. An ex Watcher and an evil lawyer, and I believe it completely. So interesting, so many layers.

[identity profile] abnormal-apathy.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 12:21 pm (UTC)(link)
All I can say is that reading this entry whilst listening to Helen Jane Long just made me tear up. Maybe it's the sentiment of my early 20s...

[identity profile] alterjess.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 12:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Wes/Lilah is a big part of why S4 is among my favorite seasons of any television show ever.

(That, and Connor, who breaks my heart. Poor woobie.)

[identity profile] kalichan.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 02:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I think I've said this before but Lilah/Wesley and the introduction of/actor who plays Connor (NOT his storyline) are the only things I enjoyed about S4. Otherwise it can all just DIAF.

I am interested to see what you think of it. In many ways it reminds me of CoE (not because of what happens) but in tonal quality. And it had the same critical response -- "OMG THIS IS THE FINEST STORY EVER and if you don't like it, you just can't handle the darkness" while I was like, "no, you don't understand Plot Construction 101, and it's not the darkness I mind, thank you very much!"
Edited 2010-06-15 14:36 (UTC)

[identity profile] rm.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 02:37 pm (UTC)(link)
It feels a lot like CoE, Day 5. It keeps getting worse. And it's starting to make me very tense.

[identity profile] kalichan.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 02:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Your feelings are Not Wrong.

[identity profile] rm.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 02:44 pm (UTC)(link)
And I feel sure, that nothing, NOTHING could feel the way Day 5 felt, in part because of how I relate to Jack and in part of how exhausting that week of viewing was, but I'm like "don't do this shit to me, Angel" because I was fine with it for CoE, largely because of my interest in personal ordeal (as opposed to structural choices the show actually made), but I'm not ready for this. Because trying not to relate to Wesley? Takes more effort than I would like.

[identity profile] kalichan.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 02:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, in terms of Wesley, it does stretch out over two seasons. So it's not going to come to a neat close here.

[identity profile] rm.livejournal.com 2010-06-15 02:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, this plotline also smacks of "if they bring Ianto back, it's going to hurt this much times 10, people" because there's no way Wes is pulling out of this death spiral of crazy.