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Believe it or not, and this option was not available, but I learned to use the Oxford comma from reading the Oxford English Dictionary. Just wanted to share that.
The last time I talked about commas was in gosh .. high school, and that's German comma rules where I believe we have something similar but gosh I don't remember. Never actually learned English comma rules at any point.
Don't use it though, even though it's entirely possible I may have used it in some circumstances, but ... I just don't have enough background to fill out your poll there
Don't use it though, even though it's entirely possible I may have used it in some circumstances, but ... I just don't have enough background to fill out your poll there
I'm Canadian, and we tend to use a mix of British and American grammar and punctuation conventions. So I have been taught both ways, depending on which teacher was in charge at the time.
i think I may have been taught not to care which one I used, but I don't remember. I only became dedicated to Canadian usage when I started doing layout in High School, and I never would have gone back to change a comma then, because doing layout manually took a loooong tiiiiiime.
It someone has a preference either way, I'll conform. But no Yank spelling. Are we barbarians?
It someone has a preference either way, I'll conform. But no Yank spelling. Are we barbarians?
Re: I am style usage switchy. AND I! AM! CANADIAN!
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stardragonca.livejournal.com
- 2010-07-31 16:51 (UTC) - ExpandDarn right I use it! Except when AP tells me not to, and then I grumble.
P.S. I tend to merely call it the serial comma; I guess I am just egalitarian that way.
It was beaten into our heads from public K-12 education in the States to include commas EVERYWHERE. No Oxford comma for you! Then "Eats, shoots and leaves" steered me straight, but until you started talking about it, I didn't know it had a name. Now I can't add a comma before "and" in a list because I translate that extra comma as an extra "and" in my head.
I have also heard it called the "Harvard comma". By people who went to Haaaaaahvaaahd.
The one lingering major complaint I have with my job is the strict "no Oxford comma" style guide. It's the fault of the Wall Street Journal, which has it on the No-No list in their style guide. I dream of the day when I can just use the bloody Oxford Comma instead of needing semi-colons to separate items in a complex list.
It's my deep and abiding love for the semi-colon that allows me to avoid those extra commas so joyfully.
Why is it called the Oxford comma? Creativity counts.
roy-batty.livejournal.com
2010-07-30 03:13 pm (UTC)(link)
It's actually a callback to gematria. The comma in general recalls the letter "yud", and in general recalls the horn of the "Ox". In this case of bridging major thought structures within a sentance, it acts as not as a full-fledged bridge, but more of a low point in the river which may be traversed (i.e. a "ford".) Thus "Oxford" here is a hermetic reference to the purpose it serves.
Not incidentally, this can be seen as reflected in usage patterns, as many people prefer to forego the use of the Oxford comma and simply swim across.
Not incidentally, this can be seen as reflected in usage patterns, as many people prefer to forego the use of the Oxford comma and simply swim across.
Re: Why is it called the Oxford comma? Creativity counts.
soukup.livejournal.com
2010-07-30 03:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know who you are, but you're my favourite now. You win the internet.
Re: Why is it called the Oxford comma? Creativity counts.
arianhwyvar.livejournal.com
- 2010-07-30 15:35 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Why is it called the Oxford comma? Creativity counts.
arielstarshadow.livejournal.com
- 2010-07-30 16:27 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Why is it called the Oxford comma? Creativity counts.
wynkat1313.livejournal.com
- 2010-07-30 17:33 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Why is it called the Oxford comma? Creativity counts.
rexluscus.livejournal.com
- 2010-07-30 17:43 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Why is it called the Oxford comma? Creativity counts.
brightlotusmoon.livejournal.com
- 2010-07-30 18:19 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Why is it called the Oxford comma? Creativity counts.
teleens-journal.livejournal.com
- 2010-07-30 18:44 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Why is it called the Oxford comma? Creativity counts.
graene.livejournal.com
- 2010-07-30 21:12 (UTC) - ExpandI checked the boxes as accurately as possible, but the truth of it is that I probably learned to use the Oxford comma, as well as some of my weird spellings, from reading Tolkien too much as a child. I currently have a writing job where it is expressly forbidden, since we use AP format. The result is that I use it somewhat randomly, as the two options slowly mix in my brain. I have the same problem with spaces after periods - I was taught and prefer two, but my job requires one.
Ah yes, I have that too, and have been told that the two spaces after a period is no longer required since we use computers which space things in a visually appropriate way now. It was only necessary, apparently, when we used typewriters (and since I learned on a machine from 1940, it's how I learned). I can't stop the two-space reflex in my typing at all.
I can't think of any time when I haven't used the Oxford comma. It was always understood that it was a given for good punctuation.
I guess I learned it in public school (somewhere in 6-10, definitely no earlier or later), but I have no conscious memory of it. I internalized grammar pretty readily, so I didn't dwell on it. I was never particularly told to do it one way or the other.
When I saw newspapers and articles didn't do it, I thought they were just being sloppy. I may have actually derived the Oxford comma from first principles, as it makes logical sense while its omission is a wacky exception case. So if someone later told me I should omit it, I probably just looked at them funny and didn't file the memory.
When I saw newspapers and articles didn't do it, I thought they were just being sloppy. I may have actually derived the Oxford comma from first principles, as it makes logical sense while its omission is a wacky exception case. So if someone later told me I should omit it, I probably just looked at them funny and didn't file the memory.
Ah! I just thought of a thing. I was cursing the non-use of the Oxford comma the other day because of a situation in which I did NOT want to imply a list of three. If Oxford comma were standard, people would know my omission was deliberate.
Sadly, I cannot think of a parallel case, and the original is from porn, which doesn't match the tone of this discussion.
Sadly, I cannot think of a parallel case, and the original is from porn, which doesn't match the tone of this discussion.
I used the Oxford comma until it was mandated over and over again in law school not to use it (why exactly I don't know, but they were very insistent), and now I'm just so out of the habit of using it that it actually looks odd to me.
I never learned the double-space thing. Of course, we had computers in middle school, which might have been why. And, thus far, my favorite reason for using the Oxford comma comes from a dedication that didn't.
I dedicate this book to my parents, God and Ayn Rand.
I dedicate this book to my parents, God and Ayn Rand.
See, that's exactly why I don't understand being anti-it's usage. It's got nothing to do with style or elegance for me, and everything to do with the fact it can clarify an otherwise ambiguous sentence. Ambiguity is the big no-no I've always been taught to avoid.
While I said I learned to use the Oxford comma in public school, I'm pretty sure I actually picked up the conviction it was correct before then through reading.
There were a few cases where I learned some British usage as a small child from reading favorite British authors -- I think I was in my 20s before I learned to call something a 'rotary' which is obviously a roundabout -- but if the Oxford comma is not standard in British usage, presumably that wasn't a factor.
There were a few cases where I learned some British usage as a small child from reading favorite British authors -- I think I was in my 20s before I learned to call something a 'rotary' which is obviously a roundabout -- but if the Oxford comma is not standard in British usage, presumably that wasn't a factor.
"Rotary" and "roundabout" are actually both used in the US, but with regional variation. New England uses "rotary" almost exclusively. I've heard "roundabout" a lot in the south.
I checked both public and private school education, because you know my school was neither fish nor fowl.
Additionally, I would like to thank my parents, God and Ayn Rand.
It is for clarity.
(And the Vampire Weekend song actually says that the path of virtue is not caring either way. I totally disagree, but I have a great weakness for their melodies and know the song well.)
(And the Vampire Weekend song actually says that the path of virtue is not caring either way. I totally disagree, but I have a great weakness for their melodies and know the song well.)
Ahah. I heard like half the song once, and I was mostly like "song about the Oxford comma!" but didn't really absorb it.
I had teachers who told me to use the Oxford comma and teachers who told me not to, which made me confused and actually very upset because there were supposed to be Rules, Dammit.
There are. But they're secret.
I learned to use the Oxford comma from a substitute teacher in first grade. I specifically remember thinking it was the coolest thing ever.
I will defend the use of the serial comma to my last mumble of "Ayn Rand and God? Hah!" on my deathbed. I use it without exception and have no truck with those who argue against it. Since my best friends are stylistically opposed to using it, this leads to a certain amount of eyerolling when we beta each others' stories.
I don't think anyone taught me to use it, it just seemed like good sense to me from the get-go.
I don't think anyone taught me to use it, it just seemed like good sense to me from the get-go.
I've had editors that required it.
I've had editors that banned it.
I just add or remove as each house's editor says to.
I've had editors that banned it.
I just add or remove as each house's editor says to.
I don't remember being taught the Oxford comma in either private or public school. I believe I learned it (and most proper punctuation) from reading extensively - and I learned just a few years ago from the Internets that it was *called* the Oxford comma! I'd been using it forever without knowing there was any special term for it.
I'm another one who can't stop double-spacing after periods. I did learn that one in school.
I'm another one who can't stop double-spacing after periods. I did learn that one in school.
I was specifically taught not to do it and began out of defiance for grammar when blogging allowed me to indulge in sloppier writing. It is just clearer to me. Only years later did I learn my quirk had a real name and a way I could defend my habit.
I love the oxford comma. It is how lists are done.
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