sundries
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Which brings me to CoE and its reception. It wasn't written as a finale, although it was written as something that could exist as a finale if need be. And, I suspect, it was viewed by a lot of the audience, especially the American audience for who the structure of the way Torcwhood has aired is a much more radical departure than what they are used to, as something that was a finale. Which really, really, impacts reception. Because seriously? Our show is over and it ends in defeat? No wonder people are angry!
Of course, this also raises the question of how we place programs in time. I.e., did Joyce die when that episode first aired? Does she die every time that episode is watched? Is she dying, constantly, right now, over and over again? Extrapolate to Torchwood. See how that works?
I also felt, ultimately, that the finale of Buffy was more true to its aspirations of feminism than much of the series. All girls who are called arrive, and they skills are not just for survival, but for the perfectly ordinary, victorious living of their lives. Great power ultimately didn't turn Willow evil, but good and wise.
And the argument that "well, it was actually Spike who saved everyone and that's not feminist" doesn't hold for me; a man had to die to save people, but the girls saved people and got to keep on living. Ultimately, I think in a show like this, where you want all key characters involved in the end and to make sacrifices, you're sort of fucked in terms of reception -- at the end of the day, the women will always seem not enough, and rescued by men, no matter what you're trying to say (and you know I have serious problems in general with Whedon's feminist cred).
I almost don't want to read the comics, as I thought the ending was so cleanly and suitably executed, but I will eventually. In the, I have no time!!!! place that I'm in now, can someone just briefly tell me if there are any graveside/mourning type moments in there I need to find now as opposed to later for my D*C presentation?
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\o/ You liked it!
And the argument that "well, it was actually Spike who saved everyone and that's not feminist" doesn't hold for me;
I think Spike's sacrifice is hugely important, because it shows another side of Buffy - the Buffy who's not just a warrior, but an inspiration. If you look at Spike's journey, he is in many ways Buffy's creation. He wanted to be good enough for her, which in the end led him to just wanting to be *good*. The reason he's there, saving the world, is because of her, and because she chose him. (She could have worn the amulet herself. Heck, Faith could have worn it. But Buffy chose *Spike*.)
And I must ruminate on your CoE thoughts re. finales, and am now curious as to what you'll make of the last episode of AtS.
I almost don't want to read the comics
Don't. Trust me. Stay far, far away. They're like the worst type of fic - retconning anything that doesn't fit, lazy characterisation, storyline with very little logic, and painfully anti-feminist in places (and I'm not sure the writers even noticed).
an someone just briefly tell me if there are any graveside/mourning type moments in there I need to find now as opposed to later for my D*C presentation?
Hmm. There is one moment, after one of the new Slayers introduced in s8 dies, but I'm not sure it's quite what you're after. I can explain in more detail if you like, but it's not hugely important.
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Seconded. The comics are unbelievably awful, and exist in that rare place (along with Highlander 2 and Scream 3) where the very existence of those stories makes the previous works worse.
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*nods sadly* On the plus-side, their very ridiculousness has very effectively stopped a lot of people reading, and, as time goes by, I fully expect them to slowly fade from fannish consciousness like a bad dream.
To people who're not familiar with the comics - the official name (apart from 'Season 8') is 'Twilight' and with every issue, this becomes more apt.
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So maybe it's not just my comics ineptitude? That's good news.
How is After the Fall? I have those...haven't actually cracked them open yet. Should I?
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Not your fault - they're bad comics.
How is After the Fall? I have those...haven't actually cracked them open yet. Should I?
Well *I* liked After the Fall very much! The original story written by Brian Lynch, after that they turned rubbish. Actually I'd recommend all of Lynch's stuff, not just AtF, but also Spike: Asylum and Spike: Shadowpuppets (which are set during S5 of Angel). Good stuff all round - solid characterisations, good (sometimes brilliant) OCs, nicely plotted stories - like really good fic with pictures! :)