various meta about Glee and Glee fandom

[rm]

I am now halfway through the first season (having already watched the second season), and have now caught a significant amount of the OMGWTF offensive shit re: people with disabilities / mental health issues (I had already seen some in the second season, but it's much, MUCH worse int he first season). What they solve with one hand, they dig twice as deep a hole on with the other hand. Yeah. Not that I didn't believe you guys, but, WOAH.


Meanwhile, Deconstructing Glee over on Wordpress has a thing about whether Kurt is cis-gendered. I want to write about this, at length (and reach no conclusions whatsoever -- I think it's super complicated by things like the queer blueprints Kurt is responsive to, the binary-focused environment on the show and in the show's audience, and the way the show with him at least (and with pretty much with nothing else on the program) manages to go "just because something might remind you have a cliche you once heard doesn't mean that it can't be someone's very complicated, not as obvious as you think truth"), but today is not that day. I'm glad someone else is trying to think it through as well (and since they are promising a part 2, I assume they will also be talking about the casual transphobia (generally from Sue in a MtF context) in the future, which is also worth a long post about the general misogyny going on in Glee both in intra- and extradiegetic contexts.

All of which makes me want to note how gutted I was in the S1 Madonna episode where the guys are doing that song and Kurt has that line before the singing starts about "don't you want to know what it would be like?" It's a really critical, critical moment, I think, about Kurt and about the show, regardless of how you interpret Kurt's identity or the trans-related nastiness that crops up periodically on the show. Again, when I have more brain/time, I do want to write about that.

Meanwhile, still the nicest fandom ever, more or less. Here's the thing I've noticed in the last few days that I'm sort of puzzled by --


There are a lot of fics where Kurt dies and it's about Blaine coping. I mean a lot, a lot. And I've read a bunch of them, because I like tragedy and character death isn't a deal-breaker for me.

But I think I have to stop reading them. I think they just... they feel ungood for me personally. I don't know why. I'm not even sure how much. It's like when you eat too many sweets and you don't know if you want more or if you feel ill, and it's just confusing? That's how I feel about these fics. Even the most mediocre of them knock me off my feet, hard, in a way that is Not How I Do Things and often I do things by just Rolling Around in the Feelings, so I am not sure why this is different. But backing away!

But why are there so many of them?

Is it just that these are common in fandom in general and I am less used to them because they don't work the same way in Torchwood fandom? Is this a product of the fandom being somewhat young and also being, of course, about people who are young, and there's that thing at a certain age where you feel like you can only express love in response to absence/loss? Death, of course, is also one of the only ways to resolve a "young love" story without breaking people up.

But Anton and I have been talking about it, and there are other questions too. He talks about how it's complicated by the way in which queer deaths have a history of being unmentionable -- which raises the question of whether this plays into the ugly parts of that history (tragic gay love!) or is a response to it (yes, he was his boyfriend, what of it?). He also suggested to me that this may be what I'm reacting to so acutely, because my life straddles that history, and there's a lot of my shadow self and being the wrong age at the wrong times in how I respond to this fandom.

Meanwhile -- no one ever kills Blaine... it's always Kurt. Is that about not wanting to hurt Kurt by making him face the loss (this fandom is v. protective of him, and I've just sort of caught that bug myself)? Is it about Kurt making a prettier corpse (seriously, originally they were going to kill Ewan McGregor's character in Moulin Rouge and he's pretty, but not that pretty)? About fandom wanting to see the more masculine of the boys in the pairing cry? Or people identifying with Kurt and wanting to write 8,000 words about how much people loved him? What is it? Man, death fic is complicated, and it's freaking my shit out.

Comments

[zunmo.livejournal.com]

It seems to me, in terms of the death-fic thing, that people kill off Kurt because we know and love more about him than we do about Blaine. Kurt reacting death would be so complicated and emotionally layered, and Blaine I still feel isn't really fleshed out yet (annoyingly enough, I wish they'd spend more time developing him as a character).

Oh, Glee. Let us count the ways in which you fail to be PC and go overboard attempting to fix that.

[cookiedough.livejournal.com]

Once again, just to be contrary, I'm not sure I could call to memory a Kurt death fic (oh, wait, except that very long Huntingtons fic) but have been absolutely broken by two Blaine death fics that I remember off the top of my head. Interested?

[rm.livejournal.com]

Bring it. If my brain is doing what I'm pretty sure my brain is doing, that'll fuck me up way less.

(That Huntington's one was the first one I found -- I've read at least four others now, though)

[cookiedough.livejournal.com]

One-shots:

http://sleepinnude.livejournal.com/2643.html

These are both by same author, second one's not actually death-fic but on the same topic.

http://community.livejournal.com/kurt_blaine/885198.html

http://community.livejournal.com/kurt_blaine/866744.html


This one is a big different, it's but still recent death-fic:

Part 1: http://theauthor2010.livejournal.com/29350.html
Part 2: http://theauthor2010.livejournal.com/29502.html
Part 3: http://theauthor2010.livejournal.com/30070.html

[therealycats.livejournal.com]

Not commenting on the fic thing because honestly I'm pretty far removed from that aspect of any fandom; I'm more into meta discussions and watch-along posts and fan art.

I think that blog entry makes some good points, but I also have my doubts that the writers really give a terrible amount of thought to symbolism and meaning in Glee (which I guess is kind of the point). I enjoy watching Glee, but I also see its many flaws, not the least of which is the fickleness and tendency to stereotypes of the writers. A lot of the time the writers are blatantly taking cues from the audience when it comes to episode or plot construction (the Britney episode, the Klaine relationship, some stuff in the first season that it seems you may not have gotten to yet), and from a viewer's perspective there often doesn't seem to be much forethought on the writers' parts. It sounds like you've watched "Wheels" already (that was the episode that got the most flack for its misguided attempts at sensitivity which ultimately kind of backfired).

One of Glee's problems is that it has never quite found its footing. It started off seeming to want to be satire; the first episode echoes Election quite a bit, and Sue Sylvester obviously is an outlandish character, but as the episodes go on it goes from outlandish, broad comedy to every other teen dramedy and back again, often within one scene. I think Sue is one of the most problematic characters in this; in "Wheels" we're meant to gain some sort of understanding and sympathy for the character; in a later episode she's back to pushing kids around in the hallways and blackmailing the principal. At the other extreme is Burt, who comes off as one of the most realistic characters on the show, and definitely (in my opinion) one of the ones with the most heart, and I think having these two extremes coexisting in the same universe is difficulty and Glee just hasn't mastered it. As someone who enjoys musicals and who loves Jane Lynch, and who has come to find Chris Colfer positively adorable, I'll keep watching the show, but unlike some in the fandom I can't watch it blindly without seeing it for what it is: an interesting concept that often fails but that I feel means well.

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

My dad and I were talking about this last weekend--there seems to be a conflict between the three principle Glee writers about whether Sue is supposed to be a real person (and therefore should be humanized) or whether she's Wile E. Coyote (and should be treated like a cartoon supervillian). Likewise, they can't seem to agree on whether the show is a sitcom, a black comedy, or a broadway-style musical.

[jinian.livejournal.com]

Wow, now I want to kill Blaine, and I haven't even seen s2.

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

"seriously, originally they were going to kill Ewan McGregor's character in
Moulin Rouge" -- Whoa! That is one tidbit I never heard. What was going to happen to Satine, then?

[weyrdchic.livejournal.com]

I've definitely seen my share of Blaine deathfic too - cookiedough has been handy with the linkage, I personally never read any of these because I've gotten so wrapped up in the meta, and so stupidly personal about defending them both and giving them a blissfully fated meant-to-be magical forever romance (even when the freaking canon doesn't back me up) that it's rare I can read things where they're apart or they hurt each other for too long. It is so deliciously unhealthy of me and I regret nothing.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Thanks to her links I have discovered that I have no reaction at all to Blaine death fics and awful, terrible, toxic sobbing in response to Kurt death fics. I'm not surprised, but man, I am so fucked up. Stepping away from that.

[weyrdchic.livejournal.com]

Oddly I feel like I'm the opposite at least with the idea of either of them dying and leaving the other - like it's so clear that Blaine needs Kurt more than the other way around, but what Blaine gets from the relationship is something that he craves but could get in other contexts in time, now that he's awakened to himself emotionally, whereas Kurt needs a very specific kind of magical wonderboy unicorn to fill the emptiness, otherwise he swings too much towards either the 'ice prince' or 'vulnerable baby seal' sides of the spectrum.

Deathfic also does nothing for me because it feels cheap and I just don't know why anyone would WANT to, but it's not like I've read much of it, either. IDEK, feelings.

[coneyislandbaby]

Please tell me that the cause of Kurt's death in these stories was not murder by Karofsky. Even if you have to lie.

Okay maybe not if you have to lie.

Been enjoying your meta on Glee and queer narratives but haven't had a lot to say beyond yes, I agree, etc. This was interesting to read and I don't usually read deathfic in Glee fandom - don't think I've read any actually, not what I usually consider deathfic (I've read some of the joke/satire/odd vore ones but they're not really what I think of as deathfics, to explain that).

I'd be very curious to hear what your thoughts are on the other queer narratives in Glee (Brittany/Santana, Karofsky) at some point.

For the record I ship Kurt/Blaine but suspect they are a high school relationship so am not sure I see them with grey hair and living wills but can be convinced and don't ship Kurt/Karofsky in canon (in fandom anything is possible), and I want a good ending for Karofsky that has nothing to do with Kurt except I want him to realise what he did and why, and for him and Kurt to come to peace. A love interest would be nice for him, but not required.

The trans essay was interesting but I'll admit to really not having enough knowledge to have an opinion there.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

I am not so good with deathfic, so have been deliberately avoiding links. The only reason I could address a canon death in my OTP is that we were setting it up to BRING HIM BACK - we anticipated the reveal on Horcruxes, and used it. (It was obviously a part of the worldbuilding even before she named them, at least obvious to someone who'd playedD&D since age 10 and knew about soul jars.) In fact, we wrote the scenes out of order in that fic, and the first one we wrote was the resurrection!

So. No deathfic for me!

[redstapler.livejournal.com]

(It was obviously a part of the worldbuilding even before she named them, at least obvious to someone who'd playedD&D since age 10 and knew about soul jars.)

I'm fascinated by this statement, because everyone I remember talking to at the time was full of WTF about the Horcruxes, and how they felt to come out of left field. (Don't get me started on the Deathly Hallows!) @_@

You do make sense, it just seemed so...unrelated in the universe. Especially since it was four books between Chamber of Secrets and Half Blood Prince.

[rikibeth.livejournal.com]

The four books between didn't feel like such a long distance to me, because naturally when I was writing fic I was combing backwards and forwards through the existing canon (we were writing between OotP and HBP) for details and language use and all that stuff you want when you're writing, so I had all the books fresh to mind.

Also, the precipitating thing for the fic in question was a random little bit of in-character riffing, where I was speaking in my Snape voice, which was naturally a 36-year-old adult Snape voice, and my co-writer was using her Evan Rosier voice, which was of course only around 20 since (assuming Evan was Snape's contemporary) he died at that age, and young Evan got adorably flustered, and we went "huh. That'd be cool, to get those voices playing off each other in an actual fic -- how do we do that?" and a soul jar resurrection seemed simplest, and seemed entirely plausible given CoS, so we went with it. Forty chapters and a bunch of satellite stories' worth. I've got to upload them at some point -- I took them down a few years ago when my ex was being a dick about custody.

[chicleeblair.livejournal.com]

They have YES THANK YOU, GLEE disability moments, and then Artie walks. *sigh* It's so frustrating, and honestly what frustrates me most is that A. Artie is played by an abled-actor when this would have been a great opportunity to cast someone with a disability and B. The little girl with Down Syndrome, no matter how you swing it, is not being treated equally. Being Sue Sylvester's slave is exploitation no matter how you swing it.

[magnetgirl.livejournal.com]

Maybe you can give me your perspective on what troubles me in the discussion over casting someone who can walk as handicapped.

I totally get why a working actor who's wheelchair-bound would be peeved. So few roles to perform in that are featured parts, and it went to someone who can walk.

My issues are these: narratively Glee has always been about fantasy sequences. In fact, one of my big issues with many episodes from the 2nd half of S1-current is that they often jettison the fantasy sequence element. I think that aspect keeps the show from being High School Musical on TV: what teen didn't sing into a hairbrush like Rachel while imagining themselves onstage with lighting and a wind machine? I always starred in music videos in my mind (& still do sometimes!), so that grounds the show for me.

If the actor playing Artie couldn't walk, the character would never be able to have a fantasy sequence/dream/daydream/nightmare about actually walking. Which, as someone with various disabilities herself, I know I do a lot. "How would my life would be if I could just "___________" like normal people?" I especially did this as a teenager.

The other issue is this: I feel like there are many other instances where actors take on a physicality or aspect not their own to inhabit a role. Acting is all about becoming someone else, so though I get why certain groups are offended by Artie (emotionally) I just don't understand why the casting of the character is an issue. Should straight actors not portray gay characters? Vice-versa? Lots of gay actors, not near as many gay roles, for example.

Your thoughts? I'm truly interested, not looking for a flame war or anything of that ilk.

[chicleeblair.livejournal.com]

I don't feel the same way about the fantasy elements, so maybe that's part of it.

For me, it's that disability is so rarely portrayed, or portrayed well, that I feel as if Glee had the chance to really take a stance here, as they did with the casting of Kurt's character (forgive me, don't know his name). His story. reflects his character. Should it always be this way? Not necessarily, but it could have been.

[wordplay.livejournal.com]

Flying through (and responding to things out of order, because I am very very naughty) but wanted to just drop here that my take on the Kurt!death fic (and my sense is also that there are more of those than Blaine!death, although I will also admit that I don't usually read these because I just don't find that trope interesting - it's usually over-developed and a little too dramatic for my tastes, and that is indeed saying something) is that fans of the pairing spent a whole, whole lot of time waiting for Blaine to get on board and care about Kurt the way they wanted him to, and there are a whole lot of Kurt fans who are still a little bitter that it took so long. I have always assumed that a lot of those fans who are writing Kurt-dies-and-Blaine-is-regretful stories are the ones who still want to punish Blaine a little bit, or give him an opportunity to self-flagellate a little. This is based on nothing but speculation and guessing but, as usual, I tend to interpret recurrent patterns in fic based on what I think some subgroup in fandom is trying to articulate.

[narie.livejournal.com]

Perhaps a bit late to the party, but the one death fic in this fandom I have genuinely enjoyed, for all that it wrecked me, and wherein Blaine dies:

http://caveatempty.livejournal.com/2293.html

Make sure to choose the original recipe ending; afterwards, when you're feeling despondent, go onto version 2.0 instead.

[chuckro.livejournal.com]

I only recently caught up through episode 2x15 of Glee (so I think I'm two episodes behind what's aired) but now that it's pretty spoiler-safe I've been reading a few of your posts. I might have missed it, but it seems to me like there's a big contrast/conflict in several episodes between those who are certain about their sexuality (Kurt, mostly) and those less so (Blaine in one episode, Santana and Britney). I also found that particular storyline with Blaine problematic, because the "Nope, really gay, no need to think about this ever again!" resolution would be really problematic if the orientations were flipped. But not being queer, I might be reading too much into it. Have you posted thoughts about that anywhere I haven't seen them yet?

[rm.livejournal.com]

To me Glee is a show about flawed people. Some of those people are kids, who are trying to grow up; and some of those people are adults, who have mostly failed to grow up (Burt Hummel and Carole being the exceptions there).

So, while lots of people I know were really angry about that scene for lots of reasons (mainly biphobia), I thought it was fine. This is what 16-year-olds do. They get hurt, they express tings in absolutist terms, they use other people for their self-exploration. It's not nice or pleasant or even logical. And they make terrible role-models -- because they are 16. There's definitely stuff to be angry about in Glee but when a show about people who are Bad at Life shows people being Bad at Life, I can't get too excited.

And no, I don't think that would be problematic if it was reversed. There's no moral obligation for straight people to question their orientation any more than there is for gay people. And Blaine didn't kiss Rachel that second time to hurt her, even if it was kind of a dick move, but again, pretty much how that would go down amongst 16-year-olds. Honestly, my experience of 16 was bucketloads mess than that.

If you've seen 2x15 then I think you are totally caught up. We're on hiatus now until the 19th. So after Kurt and Blaine hook up, you're current.