rm | some people will never get it

I restrained myself from saying, "Look, I've shopped at Wal-Mart. They have nice stuff for just as cheap as the rest of it. Don't talk to me about making theatre more accessible."

I had a feeling a statement like that would go over like a lead balloon.

I had a woman come into my journal and raise hell with me on and off for ages when I flipped out about the terrible behavior I witnessed at La Boheme on Broadway, claiming that not everyone had $100 to spend on a new dress every time they went to the theater.

You can imagine my response. I saw Boheme 4 times via rush tickets, and the only thing new I bought for it was a red dress for one viewing that cost me $10.

I'm a little uncertain what the hell they're referring to when they talk about theater being unaccessible. Aren't some of the more popular shows The Producers, Spamalot, Hairspray, and Mamma Mia?

I don't see Experimental German Theater Performed in Italian To Slit Your Wrists to (sponsored by Gilette... remember folks, down the block, not across the street) up on Broadway.

I mean, other than the ticket prices that seems very very accessible.

In some ways I can understand people not understanding the concept of dressing up for dinner as I grew up in an area that only had family style eateries where no one wore long pants. Still, you wouldn't wear a button down shirt to a slayer show, why would you wear a band t-shirt to the theater?

I think their point is that Joe Tourist and his family spent ALL THEIR MONEY OMG on the tickets, how dare I suggest they pony up for slacks or skirts and shirts without logos on them?

gah... like a new outfit must be purchased for any special event.

Recycle! Reuse! Clothing can be worn more than once! Visit dry cleaners when necessary! Press! Read Tag For Ironing Instructions!

As much as I'm an unkempt hairy hippy bastard, even I recognize the need for slacks.

The only comment I thought was odd was the person who got mad when us filthy tourists bring (omg) shopping bags into a show. I'd rather have someone do that than try to get in late because they were busting their ass to drop their stuff off at their hotel and still make it in time.

I think they meant into the theatre proper.

Coat checks are available, and not just for coats anymore!(TM)

;)

(I'm sorry to be snarky...my ability to be witty and diplomatic about this eroded about an hour ago.)

Yeah, I just told someone they didn't know how to read.

Aaah, I see what you mean. Still, I can see someone being nervous about leaving their stuff with strangers under the big huge sign that says WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY OF YOUR BELONGINGS.

I actually thought this response was funny in a toungue-in-cheek way:

"why should i pay for the incomplete issues you have with your parents?"

I live in an overall casual-dress city and I don't care personally, so for me it really is my (Euro) mom in my head flipping out. I understand that it's a much bigger deal for some people though, and as a (former) Protestant the thing about Catholics (in general) dressing more casually for church can push buttons I didn't know I still had.

Hahaha, that comment cracked me up to.

I so rarely end up at the theater anymore I am shocked by the jeans and t shirts and stuff. It's as if I've wandered out of a cave. Amy and I went to tons of shows in high school on cheapie tickets and always dressed up - it was a big deal!

It makes me sad, I think because I wonder if people are taking the experience for granted.

I also own the Peggy Post etiquette book that's three inches thick, but I still want to believe I am speaking for the masses.

I'm going to write a long post on this later, but the idea that dressing inappropriately for an occassion is not a rude action -- I don't understand. You'd think America's great egalitarian dream could come up with something better than crappy manners and reality TV.

We all know the old saw about the poor man who shows up at a wake with his falling-apart, only pair of shoes shined within an inch of its life, and how moved everyone is by this, because he went through that extra bit of effort with what he had. In the thread to

leopard_lady's post, I began to detect a bit of whining, as if all the slobs in sweatshirts are that poor man at the wake - they are doing the best they can! And that is what upsets me, because in most cases, they are not. A

The point about theater originally being for the masses was an excellent one and there was a point there. Theater was a rowdy, stinky thing back when. But in New York City especially...I don't know, I just feel the bar has really dropped in the last decade.

Every year my high school drama group did a weekend in NYC to see shows, and after dinner at some restaurant there was always this commotion while a busload of teenagers tried to change into fancy outfits in the little bathrooms before seeing some blockbuster play. We were told this is what you did to see theater, so we did it. I see now we got some valuable training that is just not as popular anymore. Which makes me sad.

Do not even get me started on cell phones.

And I'm all about theatre being for the masses, but it comes back to doing your best as appropriate to the occassion. The masses didn't have and couldn't access better than -- we can now. That's the "reward" of mass production at the expense of many artisan creations and a more formal society. That we don't even take advantage of what we have wrought makes me NUTS.

The masses were dead at 30 from plague and childbirth. We have time to buy dresses at Goodwill or Forever 21 or whatever.

Hahahaha. Oh god.

Oh great, now I'm going on about grammar and how it's a show of respect to speak properly. This will not end well.

I told someone they didn't know how to read.

I saw that, well done! Mine's in the same thread. Bwahahahahahaa!

I just got involved in that. And I do think people should speak the Queen's English. ;)

Oh man. Bad manners = invocation of Erinly ire. That's all I have to say about THAT.

I just had to explain to someone why saying "Me and Heidi" is not just wrong, but rude, as opposed to "Heidi and I"

*BRAIN EXPLODES*

People just like to justify that they don't give a rat's ass about humanity by invoking the "virtues" of the plebs.

There is no inherent virtue in bad grammar, bad spelling, bad syntax, bad manners! All these things do is proclaim to anyone with class, "I am loser! Run while you can! LULZ111"

http://community.livejournal.com/newyorkers/2038821.html?thread=20119333#t20119333

THAT is pretty hilarious.

I think you'll especially enjoy this comment.

HAHAHAHA. No.

Indeed. I saw that. I mean... Flav? Come on!

I don't know if it's my age, the fact that my parents both believed in dressing up for special occasions like dinner in a nice restaurant, the fact that I spent my teen aged years overseas, or a combo of all three, but living in California, I constantly feel overdressed whenever I go some place nice. And it's insane because dressing up for me usually means slightly gothy boho chic, but the very fact that I have a skirt on usually puts me way ahead of the rest of the people in a given restaurant.

For me putting on something nice is part of the whole experience. It's not always about the money spent on the meal or the tickets; I've put an effort into getting dressed to go to dinner at fairly inexpensive places because it was a birthday meal and if that was all we could afford that year, then damnit, at least I was going to look good. I think the reason I do it is the ritual aspect of it; setting aside my normal jeans and tee shirt existence gives an event a weight and a significance that it wouldn't otherwise have.

Also, do these people know what they're missing? It's fun to dress up!

I agree:p

This is one of those things where Soren and I have slight disagreements: he's a "clean, neat, acceptable" sort, and I'm a "let's make it an Event" sort.

We were watching WattStax, a movie about the 1972 Watts Summer Festival at the Los Angeles Coliseum, and apart from all my other emotional responses (which I should write about, because they all have to do with race, class, wealth, and the interfaces), I was noticing how many people dressed up for the concert, some fancier than the people on stage -- because that's what you do to mark an event: you dress, you style.

I think I have an incompletely verbalized train of thought in my head about marking events vs. being cool and jaded. I'd rather live a life where there are Events that I can celebrate, than be too cool to be overjoyed.

(Hell, if there's a chance that I might wind up in a piano bar singingat the end of the day, I tuck the eyeliner and lipstick into my bag, and possibly a change of jewelry -- something to make it special.)

I see the same thing in court all the time--flip-flops, raggedy old shorts, baseball caps, scraggly unwashed uncombed hair, often distinct lack of underwear on the women. If you can't convince people to look halfway presentable when their property, money, right of residence or custody of their children may be at stake, there's no way they'll get the message in any other arena.

Before my trip to NYC and London in 2000, I would have agreed with you, but experience has changed my thouhts on this. When I go see a theatre production in Houston, I dress up, and I will always do so. It is fun, and it seems the appropriate thing to do. I don't think I've ever seen a person not dressed well at a Houston theatre production. Is this because people are more sophisticated in Houston? Not at all -- Houston is simply not a tourist destination, unlike NYC and London.

I was in NYC for four days in 2000, and while I dressed up, many others didn't. I remember looking at them distastefully, thinking they were being disrespectful. We had all dressed up, so why couldn't they? A month later I went to Europe for two weeks, and because I had limited space to pack, I didn't take any dresses; I decided to take slacks instead. I had talked to three of my friends from England who frequented the West End, one of whom had been in several shows there, and they assured me that people wore jeans as it was, so I should not worry about not wearing a dress.

Of course it still bothered me, but after touring all day, going to the theatre at night in my tourist clothes was my only option. I would have rather gone back to my hotel room and done the complete "getting all pretty" thing, but I had one week in London, and we chose to use every possible minute we had, to tour. I still felt uncomfortable at the theatre, especially when I did see people who were dressed so nicely, but it was what it was. Sometimes we must make difficult decisions, and this had been one.

I would rather see people dressed nicely, but now I am not so quick to judge. When there are so many tourists wearing jeans, it is understandable that the locals would, as well.

I should have said it was the person who posted that messsage that I didn't agree with, not you.

I am also in Houston. I think Houston also has a sort of Southern sensibility, which indicates dressing up for anything conceivably a special occasion.

Here, people dress up for the big guys- Houston Ballet, TUTS, most prods at the Alley, and the Opera- but at the smaller theatres, of which we have a ton, people are more casual.

Actually, I was raised to dress up going to theatre, and I still do when I have the opportunity. (And I was a child actor, specifically in musical comedies until my teens, when I moved into experimental stuff.) But really, at this point, I am glad that people are just GOING. I don't care if they dress up. If they wear jeans and a clean, decent shirt, I'm cool with that.

Maybe living in NYC has isolated you from this, but in most places, theatre is an art form struggling to survive. I'm just glad people are going. And I don't think it's rude to NOT dress up. The world is more casual than it once was. If people go, enjoy the show, and are respectful, I am glad.

I think/suspect in NYC we get a lot of bad behavior with the casual attire which doesn't happen in places where the total culture is just more casual. I've certainly seen better restaurant bvehavior in casual establishments and from thos dressed casually outside of NYC.

some people will never get it

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