*sigh*

[rm]

ktempest links to and quotes from a series of discussions on SF/F that should make your blood boil.

I don't really have time to form a response right now, in part because I am so enraged and in part because the stuff she points to strikes so closely and dangerously near the heart of really pressing things for me (and I would hope everyone, but I also know that isn't necessarily the case).

Where are the female Beethoven's? Sewing and breeding and doing as they're told, even right now. Because it's safer for peopel in general and women in particular. Women, in particular whow ould have to be in most cases twice as good as Bethoven to get half as much notice. to be, in fact "the female Beethoven." The quote goes on to say that women, by and large can't achieve the highs and lows of men, that it is not, apparently, by and large, in our characters.

Fuck you. The idea that men of great accomplishment are not as much shocking exceptions as the women galls me. The forgetfulness on the part of the posters ktempest cites that throughout history women have largely lacked the tools (physical and intellectual training, access, wealth) to do be something beyond the narrow circles that were granted them -- appalling. ANd of course, it omits those strange characters of history who knew that as women their lives had limits they didn't want -- La Maupin, Dr. John Barry, and the records we have of dozens if not hundreds of women who disguised themselves as men to go to war (interestingly, most records of American women who did this indicate that the women in question were following or looking for their spouses, brothers or other family members during the civil war; most European records we have of the same involve, it seems, little more than a bid for freedom or adventure or a desire to fight -- that is to say they were fleeing domesticity, rather than looking to reclaim it). Of course, all this also leaves out stuff like the women of the army Air Corp in WWII. Women have, throughout history been undocumented and straightjacketed, but not nothing, not weak, not lacking in imagination, fortitude, or genius (Marie Curie anyone?). Goddamn.

The thread goes on into some insane things about race as well, that are equally appalling and drive me crazy because the book I am writing is not a white white place, but I am also aware that I have been refraining thus far from teh describing the characters much physically because of the "Blaise Zabini factor" -- which is to say, I'm not sure if I want to fuck with people and their assummptions halfway through or if I'm dreading what happens the moment I do, even if it's on page 8.

Comments

[ktempest.livejournal.com]

keyword being *some* and I'll add some other concepts: vocal minority, complete distortion, misconstruing.

If you really feel the entire feminist movement, or even part of the movement, is 'denigrating men' or being 'anti-male' then please back that up with at least 6 reliable, and different, sources.

[baronalejandro.livejournal.com]

elements of

[ktempest.livejournal.com]

again, I'd like to see some sources.