the book was just a bystander

[rm]

I have written, at length and not infrequently, over the years about why the Harry Potter books mean something to me, but those statements have been almost entirely about the child I was and the actual content of the books -- characters, themes, etc.

But, at risk of repeating myself, it is also important to me to note that one of the big reasons I am so ticked about the spoiler thing isn't just because I want to experience certain events of the book contextually and in the moment, but because when that book comes out, a big chapter of my life comes to a close. And I don't even mean the Harry Potter chapter, really, since I'll be at Terminus and there will still be the movies and so forth.

But Michael introduced me to those books. I remember sitting in his apartment in Brooklyn the night Book 4 came out. Urban Fetch delivered it, and he said he wasn't going to talk to me until he finished it and handed me the first three.

When I finished the fourth one, I whined to Soren, that I had nothing to read and I was obsessed with Snape and I needed something to take my mind off of it. Soren gave me Swordspoint and said Alec reminded him a bit of me.

So the Harry Potter books have been with me through four apartments and many jobs. They've been with me from before I decided to be an actor. They are directly responsible for several of my romances, two of my most pivotal friendships, and an astounding writing partner. They are indirectly responsible for my life as a fencer, for Patty and I meeting (and she's not even into Harry Potter), and a number of other odd and lovely circumstances in my life.

So while I may grieve the conclusion of the series and the possible passing of characters who have essentially held my hand through a lot of the blinding stupidity I've engaged in in these last years, there is also the simple grieving of this particular story -- not the one about Harry and Ron, Hermione, and yes, Snape -- but the one about me.

It would be intense under any circumstances, but under the circumstances of getting my first credit in a major motion picture, under the circumstances of Patty moving in with me, under the circumstances of Rose's Turn closing, under the circumstances of my finally making real and solid progress with my novel, and under the circumstances of yes, Michael and I being able to exchange friendly emails about his family, it all feels very solid, important, circular. That all these things reach such points of demarcation at once is a little weird, you have to admit.

So when people say "how can these books mean so much to you, they suck for all these reasons?" my overwhelming feeling isn't that they don't get it, or that they're wrong, but that they've overlooked the way the weave of my world interests me so constantly in my own peculiar serendipitous brand of self-absorption.

Sure, I can't wait to read what happens. And the grief part, after tensing up for it for so long, will be a relief. But the secret is, I half expect to wake up on the afternoon of 21st, after having stayed up all night and into the morning reading, and discover that I finally look my age.

And that is probably my last word on that, at least until I've read the thing.

Comments

Re: ...

[00goddess.livejournal.com]

Well, I think one of the reasons HP has inspired people to write fanfic is that the books are in general mediocre, but the story is archetypal and thus compelling. People read the books and want to keep enjoying the story, to know more about the characters, but the limited window of the books combined with their lameness makes people want to see that story done better (as, of course, they each individually define "better.")

While you and I seldom agree on anything

I certainly would not have brought any such thing up, but since you mention it, I think it's worth pointing out that when I have agreed with you in the past, and left comments to that effect, you were too defensive to realize when someone was agreeing with you, and got all attacky. That led me to conclude that even when I do agree with you, there's no point in me telling you so.

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[keith418.livejournal.com]

We often see film critics suggesting that people not remake great films, but poor films that could have been great. I sometimes see this effect in the fanfic department. But I would rather have people going out and being original, if I were an author, then taking my characters and playing with them. This is one reason i see the whole fanfic thing to be disturbing - but it bothers me less when I don't see people who have education and a lot of smarts doing it. In other words, I sort of seize up when well-educated, sophisticated, people write fanfic.

And I think rm's blog, on its worst day, is more interesting than any HP novel or story or film. I'd rather read about her fencing classes or whatnot then see those kids go at it again in some over-hyped film.

That led me to conclude that even when I do agree with you, there's no point in me telling you so.

Yes, well, now we are back to disagreeing again.

Re: .

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

Okay, I swore I wasn't going to get into this, but I guess I lied.

The thing that people don't get about fiction, is that it's "fictionality" makes it neither less nor more authentic. I get into these conversations with my students all the time, who mind you, ought be excused, as they have been, by and large, poorly educated and under-exposed to a variety of cultural experiences.

rm's blog is not particularly more or less authentic then her stories, or her relationships with fictional people, or fictional selves. Authenticity comes if the story strikes a chord or resonance that tells me the truth, not about the author (always suspect), but about myself. We, as readers, are never in a position to discover the factual truth behind any narrative, if such a thing can even be said to exist in a world post french theory and deconstruction.

What has amazed me throughout this conversation-in-comments is the lack of respect for the positions of others implied in these remarks - something that I think is essential in polite conversation - the basic respect inherent in a statement like: "Well, I don't agree with you, and I don't see the allure of x,y,z, but you're an intelligent being whose opinion I respect, and therefore, even if this isn't my cup of tea, there must be something in it that I am missing."

Fictional lives are real to me, and I consider them part of my lived experience. No doubt, this may be the case for others, and if it is not, I feel sorry that by my standards, their lives are so barren and fruitless.

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[keith418.livejournal.com]

No, I'm not polite.

And I think the wave of fanfic, and what it represents, is what is barren and fruitless - sorry. Read the article I linked to. The stuff on "biodiversity" indicates a cultural problem.

Re: .

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

No, I'm not polite.

I'm afraid that's not exactly something to be proud of; it doesn't make you sound outre or daring or even dazzlingly honest and forthright. All it does is make people not want to converse with you, because a) it is unpleasant and boring and b)it makes it sound like you care nothing for any opinion that contradicts your own.

I did in fact read the article you linked to, and while I think the author makes a few intriguing points about fads, marketing, and the mass media experience, I think that the part about "experienc[ing] something intimate and private, the sense that you and an author are conspiring for a few hours to experience a place by yourselves" is directly related to the fanfic experience.

Furthermore, to ascribe the motives of people who you claim to respect to this kind of hysteria is pretty reprehensible, in and of itself. Why go through all these machinations? I respect this person => They are passionate about something that I care nothing for => Therefore they must be foolish and misguided? Why not instead => Even though I'm never going to get it (and nor do I want to) there must be something in here of value.

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[keith418.livejournal.com]

Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. If you don't want to know what I think, then don't read my responses. From what I can see here, not only do some of the other folks reading this agree with at least some of what I have to say, they might actually tell you more of what they actually thought if you dropped the "be polite" insistence. I'd rather have people tell me what they really think than worry about whether they were being polite or not.

Re: .

[miep.livejournal.com]

I find that I am entirely unable to hear what someone is saying when they are insistently impolite.

What has irked me in your comments in rm's journals, both here and in the past, is the tone of condescension and superiority. This conveys to me an utter lack of respect for both her intelligence and her ability to make reasoned, thoughtful decisions about where to place her time and talent.

Good writing is good writing, whatever genre it appears in. I do not write fanfic because I have not the skill for it, not because of any lack of respect for it as an art form or a genre.

Collage is an art. Teaching, which demands that I creatively open to my students the worlds of literature, art, nature, and history, is an art.

I respect your love for what you love. I honor your passion for the works that move you. This community, that is, LiveJournal, is not an academic exercise, where we are required to attack whatever we are studying and find all the ways in which it is wrong. Rather, it is an opportunity for connection with one another as human beings.

Also, I see no lack of literary biodiversity in the world. Nor is the fact that people are writing fanfic a symptom thereof. Fic has been around much longer than livejournal, or than the internet. How many novels are retellings of myth or fairy tale? Far too many to count, I would posit.

Fic is a conversation between the author and the reader, and it breaks the wall of the page by allowing the reader to participate actively in working out the author's suggestions.

The films based on books rarely hold with any tenacity to the author's work. therefore, I feel one must approach them as one would any interpretative work.

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[keith418.livejournal.com]

I totally disagree with the politeness issue, in part, because I think it serves to get people to try to mask or suppress their actual disagreement. This is an increasingly conflict-shy culture. In particular, what appreciated about 00goddess's comments was that rm was using the fanfic stuff out of fear.

rm knows I admire her writing and that it has influenced my own - probably more than any other blogger. Diversity means reading opinions and tones you may not like. As it happens, I think your tone and approach is awful too.

Re: ...

[miep.livejournal.com]

that's okay. that's why i'm not someone whose journal you read.

and believe me, I have no trouble with conflict. I just tend to try to work through it to resolution, rather than just letting it lie.

Re: .

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

Also, while I can't speak for everyone, I have read Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell, as well, as Pullman's His Dark Materials. Just to go by Charles' argument, I (and hosts of others) already no longer fit into this schemata.

Re: .

[00goddess.livejournal.com]

I, personally, am not disputing the authenticity of fiction. Fiction has played a pivotal role in my life and I consider some fictional books to be spiritual literature in my life. I am who I am largely because of the fiction I have read.

"Well, I don't agree with you, and I don't see the allure of x,y,z, but you're an intelligent being whose opinion I respect, and therefore, even if this isn't my cup of tea, there must be something in it that I am missing."

I don't think this is lacking, at least not in my conversation with Keith. Add the phrase "for you" after "something", and you will have what has always been my attitude about rm's love of HP and of fanfic.

Re: .

[saltbox.livejournal.com]

Fictional lives are real to me, and I consider them part of my lived experience. No doubt, this may be the case for others, and if it is not, I feel sorry that by my standards, their lives are so barren and fruitless.

I agreed with you up to here. I respect fiction. I read fiction, I adore fiction, I respect fiction. Like many, I even wrote a novel and am trying to get it published.

But those who do not lead fictional lives are not barren and fruitless. See, in my nonfictional life, I've toiled with others who spend their entire lives (as opposed to me and my life with fiction) protecting the environment, protecting the weak, and empowering poor communities. Some of my best friends work well past midnight on human rights cases, public defender cases, and other sorts of public interest work. And many do not read fiction, as they don't find they have the time, given the dedication they want to give to their work. And you know what? I admire them, too. Their lives are full, and rich. Maybe not with what you value, as you recognize, but with something that I believe is valuable nonetheless. And I am sorry that your value system does not recognize this.

Re: .

[00goddess.livejournal.com]

it bothers me less when I don't see people who have education and a lot of smarts doing it. In other words, I sort of seize up when well-educated, sophisticated, people write fanfic.

Haha, me too!

I think [info]rm's blog, on its worst day, is more interesting than any HP novel or story or film.

I agree.

Re: .

[keith418.livejournal.com]

Haha, me too!

Part of it is that I expect really smart, sophisticated, well-educated adults to be passionate and engaged with stuff that's deeper than HP and the other usual subjects of fanfic. But part of it is is a creative kind of standards: "I will not glom on to someone's else work and copy it - I will produce something more original." When people throw that sort of standard away, when they struggle to loose its bonds, then I suspect we will see a decline in standards and a decline in culture. We are all influenced, but there is a line, I think, that's dangerous to cross. I sometimes think the fanfic stuff online is like the "pro-anorexia" stuff online - in that it encourages people to do what they shouldn't.

Part of the question here is whether or not you can ever say that a culture is in decline, or that artists and creative people are ever setting their sights too low. Many people are going to never make that assessment, but I think that the result of that choice to refrain from the criticism, or to go along and offer a kind of instinctual apology, is that the culture will just get worse and worse.

Re: .

[00goddess.livejournal.com]

Well,I should add that my surprise/amusement when people are into such things is entirely my kneejerk prejudice.

I think you could view it differently: sometimes brilliant people do things for entertainment that you would not do. Those things don't entertain you, but they entertain them, and that's good enough in itself.

rm has mentioned before that she writes fanfic because she enjoys it, and if other people like it too that's just gravy (I am paraphrasing, of course). I don't think she's copying Rowling's work, but making her own work in her own imagining, which is inspired by Rowling's. Since I have indeed read her fanfic, and her journal, I know that the world she has imagined really is not the world that Rowling has imagined. It's rm's (and kali's) world. It's full of customs and ideas and events that are not in Rowling's world... for instance the Regency stuff she's put into it.

And rm is working on her own novel.