Snape and gender

[rm]

DH spoilers below



Or anti-hero in this case.

I'm surprised by the silence from folks on Snape's death as regards his giving the memories to Harry. I assumed, as I assume most of you assumed, that when Snape said "Look at me," Harry would and we'd have some story told in a dying occulmency moment, instead we get Harry having to collect the viscuous fluid of memories Snape emits.

There's all sorts of things we don't know in this moment --

We don't know if Snape does this intentionally or not.
We don't know if he needed to look into Harry's eyes to do it (occulemency interrupted due to oncoming death? some other variation of same not necessarily effected by death?)
We don't know if Snape is begging to see Lily's eyes one last time or if he is asking Harry to see him for who he really is.

There's a damn book in this moment and we have no idea what it is (note, for example Snape dies and his memories are bottled, here he is again, contained and recontained). Thing is, neither does Harry.

But to get back to my point, as sort of random as Snape's death is (snake bubble to the head! obscure point of wizarding law JKR pulled out of her ass!), one could argue it's the only point at which he's a "man" in the sense of how fantasy novels and honour work.

He's essentially testifying to his love for Lily and delcaring the truth of his allegiances. Those memories are in many ways the only proof the series has offered both in terms of his humanity and masculinity -- we see desire, we see conflict, we see honour, and, of course, we see absence: no other loves, no children. This viscuous emission of memory is what counts for seed in the life that has been Snape's.

Reading it I was so struck by the sexuality of the metaphor (and not, thank you, in a particularly porny way), especially when you think of all the times Snape's been put in woman's clothes (Neville's grandmother's suit, his mother's blouse, arguably the long night-shirt), or had his handwriting compared to that of a girl or the more general connection made not just by the French, thank you, between death and orgasm.

I feel like fandom should be all over this.

Perhaps we are and I'm just missing it.

Or perhaps no one has picked their jaw up off the floor yet.

Or perhaps it's somehow too serious and sad for us to talk about next to our usual play things?

Comments

[hangedwoman.livejournal.com]

It's times like this that I'm sorry that you're the only person on my f-list who looks at Snape with the ?seriousness?gravity? that you do, and that I haven't read the books yet myself. Because as much as I love reading your thoughts on subjects like this, I'd prefer a good conversation more.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I mean really. I _am_ very serious about this whole thing, which peopel either don't understand or are horrified by all too often, so it's nice to see that you get it. I hope you will read the books eventually, so that we can chat about them. Right now I'm wondering whre anyone who has read them is on this damn topic!

[hangedwoman.livejournal.com]

I keep saying I'll read the books after all the movies have been made, but I might not hold out that long. I like being able to enjoy the movies without having to compare them to what I've read.

But yes, even though I don't have the same knowledge I've heard enough from you and a couple of other people to understand why Snape is so fascinating. And as far as understanding being fascinated with a fictional character and taking it seriously - ha! Where do I start - with the pages of notes I took in response after reading Arkham Asylum?

[marzipan-pig.livejournal.com]

I'm not following any of this with the seriousness you are, but what got me is, what if Harry hadn't been there? It was like there was no back-up plan to tell Harry anything, when Snape was of course in all kinds of danger at multiple points.

I also didn't really get the thing about the wand and who got it from who when.

I did like hearing Snape's whole story all at once though instead of having Harry have to put it together in pieces.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

What part of wizarding law are you refering to? To me, it's one thing to have a protective shoeld around the snake, it's another to allow something to penetrate it, while suposedly leaving all other things out.

Aslo, as i recall when Dumbledore was using the pensive , it required a wand to extract memories , and in the scene with snape it " just happens ".

As for the rest, it would seem to make some sense that Snape knew Harry was there behind the box. How often has he caught him/snuck up on him? He has always had the uncanny ability to catch students misbehaving inhis classes.

Where did the part of Snape and his mothers blouse happen? I don't recall that. As for the other bit, that wasn't snape - it was a Boggart that was reacting to Longbottom. It was a reflection of his fears, then a spell was made to turn it into something to laugh at. IMHO making a duplicate Snape that appears in a dress doesn't reflect on the real one. What if Longbottom was raised by an uncle who he was afraid of and the Boggart had appeared in a stained T shirt and jeans with a beer canin one hand and a remote in another?

Ponder ponder ....

[rm.livejournal.com]

Snape in Neville's grandmother's clothing is still a literary portrayal of Snape. I'm not saying Snape is feminine, I'm saying that people react to Snape or view Snape through a lens of feminization or emasculation.

The point of wizarding law I am referring to is the matter of wand ownership/control on the subject of the eldar wand -- Voldie kills Snape because he thinks he has to to get the wand to work for him because he is unaware of the chain of control that is actually on the wand at that time.

And to answer a question you asked me a few days ago, Dumbledore had been Chief Warlock of the Wizengamut (the wizarding court). This is a legal title within wizarding England's government, not a magical title although it may have come with some magically binding contract. Warlock doesn't, therefore, in JKR's world necessary have a negative connotation. However consider the the ministry is at various point filled with blunderers, collaborators and/or criminals, and Albus' own somewhat dubious moral compass, it may also have been commentary on JKR's part.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

Yep,

Longbottom was thinking of something silly, ( ridikillus I believe was the spell ) and that was his grandmothers hat and outfit. I can see how putting that on Snape would be emasculating.

I thought that the requirement of killing the previous owner to take full posession of the eldar wand was a part of it's creation, not wizarding law. AS a similar example compare me selling a car, filling out the title and transfer paperwork, that's the law. Carjacking by killing the driver and taking the car is not.

As for warlock, there are witches ( Fem ) wizards ( Male ) , and then Warlock all used in the series. Perhaps it's more of a title like Chairman or some such in the JKR universe. I was refering to the skewed use of the word warlock in this universe, where it is used interchangablly as male witch and oathbreaker/bad guy.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, totally on the Dumbledore moral compass more resembles the one belonging to Capt. Jack Sparrow than anything else.

[magnetgirl.livejournal.com]

Snape's wearing his mum's blouse when he's a child in the memories Harry extracts after/while he dies.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Oh thanks! I forgot to respond on that point.

[magnetgirl.livejournal.com]

No probs. I have your degrading references to characters we love covered.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Hahahaah.

I am realizing that one of the things that shocked me so much about his death was that it wasn't drawn out. Which is elegant on JKR's part because death is random and stupid and sloppy. And I adore Snape so much I should be grateful that it was probably more neat and clean than he should have reasonably expected (I mean, he wasn't tortured first). But, it just leaves me with this odd feeling.

[magnetgirl.livejournal.com]

You're totally right on both feelings, I think. The quickness of it was shocking and true to life. On the other side, though, she didn't set it up properly beforehand. There were FAR too many "if's" about the scenario for it to truly be a successful scene, let alone a fitting swan song for the punching back of Potterdum.

[rm.livejournal.com]

As someone else in these comments mentioned, what the fuck was the plan B?

Of course, Snape never, ever had a plan B. Couldn't by then. No one knew where he stood, and Snape was always certain that he was smart enough that he could just keep rolling with whatever happened. That, and that hubris, also turned out not to be the case.

But even if Snape didn't have a plan B, I sort of felt like JKR should have, and where the fuck was that?

[delchi.livejournal.com]

I almost want to compare Snape to Werther ( Goethe, Sorrows of Young Werther ) in that nothing really mattered once his love was lost. 'Fate can blow him in any direction it does, who cares' kind of attitude. He didn't care any more about a plan B than he did about the whole thing. He took his marching orders from Dumbledore, and that was that. Otherwise he buried himself in his work, which would explain how meticulous he was about potions.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

I have a strange question about it as well.

The snake was encased in a protective bubble, ok - that would lead me to believe that the protection was designed to prevent things from the outside getting in. How is it then that this protective bubble rolled into and allowed Snape inside?

The last act that you-know-who did was wave the elder wand, then the protective bubble started moving towards snape. However, you -know-who had just stated that the elder wand didn't work for him. Did he mean that it didn't kill , but could do lesser magic, or it didn't do anything at all. Historically wand failures have resulted in complete failure of a spell , and maybe some tame sparks or some such.

Also, he didn't fight back. He drew his wand, but did nothing with it. At worst he could have jammed it vertically in the snakes mouth preventing it from biting or something. It just seems that the last action he takes is to pull out his wand. Why didn't he do something with it?

When the snake WAS killed, it was done with an enchanted sword, which one assumes was able to get past the protection. Makes you wonder what kind of protection it really gave.

[boltonia.livejournal.com]

However, you -know-who had just stated that the elder wand didn't work for him.

Here is what he actually said:

"I have performed my usual magic. I am extraordinary, but this wand...no. It has not revealed the wonders it has promised. I feel no difference between this wand and the one I procured from Ollivander all those years ago."

So, the wand worked for him, just not in the way he'd imagined.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I'm heading back to re-read that section. I am a bear of very little brain at times.

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

I've dumped my responses to that scene and that sort of thing into fanfic-writing, but I'm with you on this one. Weirdly incomplete in so many ways, painfully interesting.

[ook.livejournal.com]

You forgot to mention the biggest female metaphor of all in relation to Snape: he has a doe patronus -- a female patronus, rather than a male.

I might also point out that the cauldrons associated with Potions-making are female symbols. Wands are phallic symbols. Snape mocks "foolish wand-waving" in his First-Year lecture. ;)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Oh, you ROCK.

*tries not to formulate ANOTHER presentation for Terminus*

[ook.livejournal.com]

Also, Snape arranging for Harry to find the Sword of Gryffindor in the frozen lake makes Snape the Potter-version of the "Lady of the Lake." More female symbolism! :D

[distan.livejournal.com]

Oh, but Snape is very swift and skillfull with his wand. He was the first to introduce students to the duelling, and he was always the fastest at it. The matter is he is among those few, who (unlike the author) understand that magic is not the foolish wand-waving. It's all about will and the brain of the magician.

As for the feminine-masculine symbolism, I'm sure, it's all JK Rowling and her efforts to diminish Snape, to strip him of his appeal and even his vast fandom. Making a person miserable for her is making him wear poor clothes--not just his father's, but even his mother's.

I don't give a damn abour the author's complexes, frankly. But there is a HUGE symbolism in alchemical dualism of a true alchemist, and yes, Snape should be an ideal alchemist. In some good fiction. :/ In this fiction there is no alchemy at all, but Flamel and Dumbledore, who used it to brew wiskey.

[rm.livejournal.com]

But there is a HUGE symbolism in alchemical dualism of a true alchemist, and yes, Snape should be an ideal alchemist.

Word.

[gracilejenn.livejournal.com]

This is wonderfully written, and has given me much to think about. I'm working on a post about my DH feelings, and the strange denial phenomenon that keeps happening to me. It's just jarring to me that the person that I have invested so much time and love on, met such an ignominious end.

I definitely need to think more.

I would love to read more of your thoughts. Do you mind if I add you?

[rm.livejournal.com]

Ah, not at all, welcome! I'll add you back.

I think what is most jarring is that most of us probably expected Snape to die, but probably expected some big public scene. I certainly always imagined the man going down in some moment of speechifying rage about true allegiances and the grotesquery of sacrifice, myself. And I'm sad that we, and he, didn't get that. On the other hand, I do acknowledge that JKR did something honest in his death being somewhat narratively random and sudden. Death _is_ stupid. That said, I'm not sure if this was smart on her part, or just her need to get rid of a character she created who happened to be more complex than she either understood or knew what to do with.

[graene.livejournal.com]

I think the reason I had not spent much time (what little time chasing a toddler left me) contemplating Snape's death scene is because the memories left a stronger impression somehow, tied up my emotional imagination a bit more, before being swept aside by the continuing events of the book. That said, I agree with everything you've said, and will definitely be rereading with more critical eyes at some point in the hopefully not too far distant future.

Snape's femininity

[textualsphinx.livejournal.com]

I think it's hugely ironic that, the more JKR tried to desexualise Snape by making him appear feminine or be 'humiliated' via the imposition of femininity, the more alluring she made him for *intelligent, intellectual* female readers. Who wants Sirius red-blooded-het Black and his Biker Porn when you can have geeky Snape scribbling his genius into what was probably his mother's potions book?