TW Lost Souls

[rm]

So I have no idea if people will like it. Radio plays are weird animals, especially to Americans, but for one that is also supposed to be educational and thus is extra evil on the exposition, it's pretty damn good.

Also, there's some hilarious playing about with TW power dynamics stuff.

Jack gets morbid about being immortal, and it's sort of lovely in an overwrought way.

Ianto cries again. Apparently that's his official role on TW. I mean, again, utterly understandable, but wow, emo much?

There's a totally, totally awesome Jack/Ianto moment courtesy of Gwen that will make people squee. It's damn funny. In fact, contrary to other opinions I've seen, I think this will make Jack/Ianto fans squee more than a bit. Their dynamic is understated but to me, very there, throughout the piece and it's nice to see Gwen having not batshit insane dynamics with both of them.

Lots of dorky shit to use in icons. "Is Ianto an angel yet?"

So yeah, go listen.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/_ood/torchwood/torchwood_20080910-1500.mp3

Comments

[mellacita.livejournal.com]

Ianto cries again. Apparently that's his official role on TW. I mean, again, utterly understandable, but wow, emo much?

Ianto is my favorite TW character, but that was my least favorite part of the thing.

I enjoyed it on the whole, but some of it did make me cringe a little.

I loved the team dynamics and I especially loved Gwen and Ianto working together.

I'd love to see this incorporated into yours and kalichan's ongoing series one day, though I know you have more immediate things on the fire.

[rm.livejournal.com]

It's a huge time-line issue for us. Although I suppose, I think (she manages time lines, I don't, and she hasn't listened to it yet) that we could say that Journey's End actually comes after this. I think that would be the easiest solution and a good set up for a bit of Jack/Ianto on their way back home. So maybe that's something that can happen, not in the arc per se, but when we're done with the arc and feeling itchy and go back to randomly fill things in.

I was really by psyched how much I felt the Gwen/Ianto interaction felt like ours!

[melebeth]

I love radio plays, but I don't think John Barrowman's acting style translated all that well to the audio medium. He's such a physical performer that what comes across as strong choices when you see him feels more like overplaying, to me, without the visuals. Still, it was delightful! Thanks for posting it.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yup. I think he totally suffered on it, but I think we all knew that was going to be like that going in. GDL and Eve Myles were great. I thought Frema Agyeman was fine, but her voice wasn't really engaging enough for radio.

[contrarywise]

It was cute and a bit dorky, yeah, but there was some cool stuff to squee about. I'm glad Martha was more than an excuse to get the team to CERN in this story. And I enjoyed Gwen in this piece--she's smart and effective here, just the way I like her. And her interactions with Ianto were great. Jack was over the top in a number of places, and yeah, Emo Ianto Is Emo. *sigh* But overall, the character interactions were solid and believable, and it was a fun story, bad creepy electronic voices and overdone JB voice acting notwithstanding.

The actual science was a bit iffy in places, but a fair amount of it was pretty good. There's a companion article on the BBC Web site that discusses some of the science (the solid and the faulty) behind CERN's and the LHC's guest appearances in recent fiction, including "Lost Souls", that's worth reading.

My bike's got a bell.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

I think the high point for me was Jack reversing the polarity of the neutron flow. I can't wait until the Doctor hears about that.

You're right that radio plays are a bit peculiar as a format, though they can be done quite well. Plus, we're enjoying a bit of a resurgence of audio media, what with the podcasting craze and all. (Is podcasting a craze? Do we even have crazes anymore? Do I sound like a 60 year old newspaper columnist?)

Overall, my not-at-all inner fanboy was pleased to get new Torchwood this morning. I wound up downloading it after the fact because my media player was doing what everyone else's was and cutting out every few seconds.

Most of my complaints are less about the format and more about the writing. The exposition fairy paid us way too many long-term visits for something that happens as part of an all-day thing about CERN and the LHC, and that made it hard for things like characterization and depth to really kick in. Everyone came out a little flat, Ianto and Gwen were irritatingly underinformed, and there's just not enough room in the script to make Ianto's interaction with the beastie credible.

In short, I've read better fanfiction, but this had the benefit of being acted by the cast. I like the cast. So. Hm.

Re: My bike's got a bell.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Ianto would know all about CERN and Gwen's not that dumb. She had some "gee whiz, really?" moments that I hated. Also, I can't see Jack giving that much of a crap about the thing at least in the way it was done.

Re: My bike's got a bell.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah. I mean if we know all about CERN, and there's the occasional scientist popping up and saying it could cause the end of everything, and UNIT are playing security? Torchwood's going to be in the loop.

Complaints aside, I did like the Ambassador, His Wife, and His Assistant schtick (and the later joke about "this is no job for the Ambassador from Wales"), and that they tried (albeit in a ham-fisted, not-entirely-satisfying manner) to address the loss of Owen and Toshiko.

It's a good thing our fandom tends to right wrongs as a matter of course. I eagerly await the deluge of post-Lost Souls retcon fic.

Re: My bike's got a bell.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Lol!

I'm already sort of thinking about a Jack, Gwen and Ianto on the airplane home thing. Mainly because there's something funny about the three of them stuck in coach together.

Re: My bike's got a bell.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

They get apprehended by an air marshal when Ianto tries to operate a French press in the loo, and someone mistakes it for a bomb.

Watch for Torchwood: Gwen, Ianto, and Jack Escape from Guantanamo Bay in theatres soon. Featuring Neil Patrick Harris!

Re: My bike's got a bell.

[rm.livejournal.com]

My brain just broke.

Ianto: "Jack, please stop trying to fuck Doogie Howser. Please."

Re: My bike's got a bell.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

I don't know. NPH is like Captain John with a branding iron, and the brothel scene has potential on all sorts of levels.

Re: My bike's got a bell.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I know this. You know this. Would Ianto get this? Okay, rather, would Ianto _admit_ to getting this.

Re: My bike's got a bell.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

He would have reservations initially, but Jack's efforts throughout the film to persuade him eventually win him over during a quiet moment while Gwen's off on a food run.

Unfortunately, this being a comedy, Gwen would return partway through and walk in on them.

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

Well, that was some entertainment, and extremely well suited to listening to while sick in bed.

That was supposed to be educational? Seriously?

It might have been nice to have a bit of a disclaimer, i.e. "The LHC is real, but the glowing people and stuff is not" - well, you'd have to have that in the US, people would go berserk.

I really liked the Gwen/Ianto interaction. They're good together. Gwen's entreaties to Ianto to stay alive for Jack and for coffee - yep, that's just what she'd say. The monster - did it say it was the Gelth, or did I imagine that? - pretending to be Owen, Tosh, and Lisa - eep. Very disturbing. Emo Ianto is again emo - I remember somewhere some writer saying Gareth is just so good at being distraught, they can't resist.

I wonder if Ianto really doesn't remember any of it, or just doesn't want to talk about it?

John Barrowman is just a wee bit Shatner. I adore that he had to be the assistant. Ianto and Gwen getting to be the Ambassador for Wales and his lovely wife = gold.

In case you want to check occasionally, try out Has the Large Hadron Collider destroyed the world yet?

[rm.livejournal.com]

I think Ianto just didn't want to talk about it. Which I thought was a cute touch.

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

He'll talk about it later, with Jack, in private. Wrapped in a blanket.

[(Anonymous)]

Well I did stalk your story last night...so. I think that GDL and EM were very good and suited to radio. JB not so great, FA, well terrible. (someone teach her speech rythmns, for the love of God) The scene that made me almost die of cringe was her asking Jack how he is, and that discussion. It was painful, not in a good way.

I didn't like Ianto being emo about Lisa again, but he was bloody good, and very funny as the Welsh ambassador. I felt it was a bit childlike, and made him especially, out to be an idiot who needed things explained to him.

Still I did have fun listening, treated it like a Dr Who radio ep, once I realised it was pitched that way.

And reversing the polarity of the neutron flow, hilarious.

[valancy-joy.livejournal.com]

haven't had a chance to listen yet, but it is finally stuck onto my ipod for future listening pleasure

but

ianto crying again?... all i could see in my head after previous comment upthread was ianto's business card

Ianto Jones
Torchwood Institute
Does Everything, Salty Tears Upon Request

*bad bad me*

[kribban.livejournal.com]

I sort of liked it. Or rather, I liked the first forty minutes of it but felt that the ending was a bit anticlimactic, and the aliens were completely OTT. ("Muhahaha, we're evil!")

I don't think Ianto was that emo. Then again, I'm one of those people who think the Lisa issue is seriously ignored on the show. Plus I love men crying.

Gwen fills me with such love. And Daddy!Jack. Sigh.

I'd have to say Gwen and Ianto was the best part of the episode.

Jack is brainy? I must have missed that memo...

[(Anonymous)]

Jack is incredibly smart. Don't forget him fixing the Tardis in the first season DW. Always knowing what theory the Dr was working on, often pointing out the implications, understanding all the alien gadgets etc. Being able to pilot the Tardis. In TW he does know a lot, and is the same, but I think the problem is that they set Tosh up to be the genius, and also that they need the meetings where the team explain things to him. So you do lose the sense of how clever and resourceful he is. Also I think some fan fiction writers forget as well!

However there is no way that Ianto wouldn't know about CERN or particle physics, at least the basics. Even if Gwen didn't, which makes sense given her role.

[kribban.livejournal.com]

Hmm, that's true. He pales in comparison to Tosh.

Also I think some fan fiction writers forget as well!

LOL, yes. Fanon!Jack is more brawn than brains. (Because, you know, you can't possibly be both. *g*)

[(Anonymous)]

Actually I don't necessarily think Tosh is smarter than him, but she had a particular expertise. He is more practical, for example with Mary's space ship, he figured it out, and could work it, whereas Tosh had no idea. I think he has that pilot/engineer type of intelligence, while Ianto and Tosh are more geeky.

God help me and my overthinking.

[rabecka.livejournal.com]

Hmm, that's true. He pales in comparison to Tosh.

Although, in Fragments, when he's talking to Tosh about the sonic device she made from incorrect plans, I thought it was clear that he knew exactly where the plans were wrong. And then he made a comment something like "but just think what you could do with training", the implication being that he would be doing the training.

Sorry if I'm edging in here - I'm just enjoying the comments, cause I like fics that have Jack being technically competent. Or maybe more to the point, is that I've seen one too many where he's portrayed as being barely capable of figuring out a light switch.

[kribban.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but it seems odd that Jack should know the schematics better than Tosh. ;-)

It's interesting what you say about him doing the training... If that's the case, why would they need a new scientist?

Or maybe more to the point, is that I've seen one too many where he's portrayed as being barely capable of figuring out a light switch.

LOL, yes. It's the brains vs. brawn thing. It's deeply rooted. Of course, no one seems to worry about the lover/fighter thing...

[rabecka.livejournal.com]

On the schematics, I'm assuming Jack had a chance to look at them (as well as Tosh's device) before he met with her. His technical/mechanical ability is well established on Doctor Who, if mostly ignored on TW.

If that's the case, why would they need a new scientist?

I can think of lots of answers to that one -
1. He's the leader, and doesn't have the time to also be the primary scientist, especially when both are needed simultaneously. Also, I think Jack is more engineer/mechanic than scientist.
2. Tosh was also brilliant on computers, and I can see that as something Jack lacks. Given that he's from the future, he's used to far more sophisticated systems, and might not have the time or inclination to keep current with 21st century systems, especially at Tosh's level.
3. Jack's an ex-Time Agent. He might very well be concerned about damage to the timeline if he applies too much of his own knowledge. Safer to train someone from this century, and then back off, except in extreme cases.

no one seems to worry about the lover/fighter thing...
LOL. Of course, the 'fight all day, fuck all night, wake up hungover in the local jail' hero type has a long and noble history :-)

[(Anonymous)]

Yes axactly, thanks for clarifying, that was the point I was trying to make. Jack's talents do seem to be engineering, technical, fixing and putting things together. I agree with your point about Fragments, and yes presumably he trained Tosh.

I also go with the assumption that the Time Agents are like astronauts today, ie top of the class so to speak, pilots, but highly technical as well.

It annoys me a lot when fan fiction writers treating him like a child, and I'm not sure where they get it from. There is an assumption that JM is childlike I think, which doesn't help. Yet he is very bright, and if you listen to the podcast he did with Brian Cox from CERN, he has a good grasp of particle physics, and the science behind the science fiction as it were. At least as good as any lay person would have. I think his playful side is deceptive, there is a very sharp mind there.

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry for butting in...
I always kind of thought that a lot of Jack's understanding of the TARDIS and other advanced machinery had to do with him being from the 51st century. I do think he is smart and quite possibly he was trained as an engineer or something similar. I don't think that he is a genius like Tosh though, but he got his education in a time that is way more advanced science wise than the present. He would logically have seen or heard about devices like the one she tried to make, because somewhere in between now and when Jack went to school some other genius made one and science advanced and eventually the technology wasn't cutting edge but rather something you studied at school... When talking about technical equipment most people today would appear a lot smarter than someone born a couple of centuries ago, without actually having a higher IQ. Just tossing my 50 cents in there....