(no subject)

[rm]

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/who-are-you-calling-gay/

"To not be a man is to not be fully human and that’s terrifying."

Yeah, I've nabbed that somewhat out of context, but it's amazing both in and out of context.

The piece as a whole is riveting. No surprises, I don't think, but relevant to multiple recent discussions here, and really resonated with me from low-level parental paranoia about their kid being gay to the idea that masculinity is some awesome prize in the crackerjack box (that, by extension, should be maintained regardless of cost to self and/or cost to others).

Comments

[louiseroho.livejournal.com]

My nine-year-old son is suffering this kind of harassment at school and at daycare. It is heartbreaking. I am trying to give him the tools to defend himself mentally against it, but the shaming with being called "girly" and "baby-ish" and "nerdy" continues. The school is trying to intervene on Will's behalf because once after math class he just sat at his desk and called out to the air "Can someone please help me be normal?"

At one point Will said "My mother said I can be more than just a nerd" and one of his tormentors responded with "Yeah. You are a super-nerd!"

The school is aware and we are aware. Will is in therapy and has all the possible interventions, but what I really want to do is hunt down these tween-boys and beat the shit out ofstop them before they destroy my child.

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry about what's happening to your son. I remember when I was in school how other boys would taunt each other by bellowing "You WOMAN!", clearly the worst and most degrading epithet they could think of.

[shipchan.livejournal.com]

My 11 year old brother is going through the same thing and it's really awful. The school doesn't seem to be able to do anything about it and I'm sort at a loose as well. As it happens more often it's gone from bad to unacceptable and I really feel like someone has to do something about it.

[woogledesigns.livejournal.com]

what do the other kids parents say? Perhaps you should host a conference with them, I doubt they all want their children to be bullies.

As I look back on my own childhood I think that the only tools that would stop tormentors is to be what they want you to be- stop being a nerd and stop being unique. Blend in, camouflage like they do. Have the same values and clothes. All the qualities that adults think of as laudable- uniqueness, independent thought, diligence- are things the average child resents. Growing up, I think, is a no-win situation.

[marcmagus]

The first few comments on the piece are also great; they set the bar so high that I'm rather tempted to stop posting comments on anything serious, ever.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I know! Which is seriously so unusual for the New York Times I don't even know what to do with myself.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I'm not at all surprised that parental involvement seems to be a key factor - the disconnection between public and private attitudes about sex and gender seem to hit head-on in adolescence.

[ladypeculiar.livejournal.com]

I love her in general (academic who writes about sexuality and gets migraines? Even ex-Topamax taker like myself? My kinda lady), but this was a great piece. My favorite comment so far:

"I went to a conference on bisexuality about 15 years ago. A woman there said to me, "I wish you gay men would stop putting your energy into fighting homophobia and instead put your energy into eradicating misogyny. Because the problem society has with gay men isn't that they're with other men - it's that they're men who are "acting like women." If it were ok to be a woman in this culture, homophobia would just disappear." I think she's right.”
— Jess Thompson-Adams
Dude, You've Got Problems

[sushis.livejournal.com]

hmmmm...I have to say, I don't like the "your oppression is just a sub-species of my oppression" idea I see there. I do suspect that misogyny is a factor in, or at least a close relative of, much homophobia against gay men, but I don't think it's right for a (straight?) woman to tell a gay man what his oppression is all about, as if his experiences might not provide him with additional information or a different point of view.

[ladypeculiar.livejournal.com]

I definitely see what you're saying, and certainly the tone of the quote is too "This is right, other things are wrong" for my tastes. What I appreciate about the idea though, is the notion that hatred of the "other" bleeds into both of these cultural groupings. It's an idea that Fouccault touched on a great deal in The History of Sexuality, and I always find it intriguing when I see it brought up.

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

What was that John Stuart Mill quote about how feminism was about the liberation of men every bit as much as women? Pity nobody was listening.

[redstapler.livejournal.com]

I don't know the quote, but a few feminism blogs have the tag "sexism hurts men, too" for relevant posts.

[sushis.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure, is the tag used in earnest or mockingly, or either, depending upon the writer's opinion?

Personally, I do think that sexism hurts men, too, but, with the exception of gay men (and probably several other categories, too) it generally hurts men much less than it hurts women. That is, it's women who suffer by far the most from it, in my opinion.

So, I guess I wouldn't use the tag, since I don't like to tag mockingly!

[redstapler.livejournal.com]

It's mostly used in cases of "traditional" ideas of masculinity pigeon holing men who don't fit those restrictions. Also, how misogyny makes life tougher for men who have "traditionally feminine" interests, appearance, etc.

I didn't intend to hijack this as "What about the menz?"

Sorry. D'oh.

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

Weirdly enough, this reminds me of an episode from season 1 of Make Me a Supermodel in which the contestants were split into a three-man team and two-women-plus-one-man team. One of the members of the all-guy team trash-talked his male competition by calling him "gay" and "a girl." Afterward he was called on his homophobia, but nobody mentioned the misogyny.

That's when I started throwing things at my TV.

[1-mad-squirrel.livejournal.com]

Did you see this comment? (top one)

[shipchan.livejournal.com]

It's really ridiculous that this stuff still goes on. The fact is kids need to be educated about this stuff and teachers need to start giving a damn. Unfortunately, kids don't vote, thus don't matter, and teachers are usually too underpaid to care so nothing gets done.

[woogledesigns.livejournal.com]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sissy-Duckling-Harvey-Fierstein/dp/0689835663/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240022693&sr=8-1

I just bought that for my friends future kids. Did I do the right thing or would it be better to teach them to 'toughen up' and look down on women, because that way they have a higher chance of living past their teens?