prop 8

[rm]

8 upheld, but existing marriages still legal.

Because 18,000 gay marriages won't destroy civilization but equal rights will?

The entire situation, that this is even something we're debating as a nation, is so completely irrational, I kinda can't deal with it. It is only rational if the debate is framed thusly: "are gay people human?" and until people who are anti-equal marriage are willing to make the assertion that gay people are not, in fact, human and as such should not be allowed to enter into any legal contract or business relationship, I have even less than zero patience for their arguments.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. Even if I find your personal "deeply held beliefs" bigoted and offensive, I'm peripherally willing to acknowledge you as a thinking person if you at least have the nerve and the intellect to stand by what you really mean.

And if you tell me, "well, no, I do think gay people are human but it just shouldn't be called marriage" or some other half-assed "compromise"? Intellectually weak. Examine your shit and choose a side. Either hold your nose and advocate for calling it marriage despite your discomfort, because gays are human, DESPITE YOUR DISCOMFORT, or go join the camp that says I'm not.

THIS IS NOT A COMPROMISE ISSUE.

Perhaps I'll be rational later. Oh wait, this is being rational. It is rational to be outraged. It is rational to be angry. We shouldn't have to live like this.

Comments

[genmaicha.livejournal.com]

I am so disappointed in my state right now.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

Because 18,000 gay marriages won't destroy civilization but equal rights will?

obviously

[marieoroumania.livejournal.com]

They will "allow" the existing marriages to stand. Because love is a privilege that only "opposite couples" are entitled to.

I am so embarrassed by my state right now.

[marieoroumania.livejournal.com]

HA! I just wrote almost exactly the same thing, below.

[ophymirage.livejournal.com]

even partial victory is something- we will get it back on the ballot, and be more on the ball this time...

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping that here in New York we're (eventually) more sensible.

[hllangel]

As a gay Californian I'm on the verge of tears right now. I'm ashamed of my state, I'm angry that the "people have voted" and told me that I don't have the same rights that they do, I'm so pissed off that I can't express how mad I am right now.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

The idea that this decision is somehow fair is ludicrous and you SHOULD be angry. You are right to be angry because I am angry.

The idea being that deeply held beliefs should anything to do with this decision is simply nonsense. Beliefs are not law.

Separate is NOT EQUAL.

People deserve equal rights whether they are gay, bi or otherwise.

I'm hugely disgusted, and find it truly astounding that California is having so much trouble with an issue that should be a no-brainer.

Ronald Reagan's stink continues to linger in the bigoted heartland of America, and this is a clear indication.

[argentla.livejournal.com]

Well, that's depressing.

[berry-k.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty upset by my state right now, but I have to admit the legal argument was pretty thin, and looking ONLY at the facts of the case the Justices made a reasonable call.

I'm still pissed that the ignorant yahoos of my state voted the damned thing into law in the first place.

[vichan.livejournal.com]

I live in a state that voted overwhelmingly for the marriage ban in 2004.

Definitely disappointed in the outcome of this. BEYOND disappointed. If I try to find the silver lining, though, I'm seeing one really good thing: people in Ohio are talking about it again. A co-worker of mine said that she voted for the ban in 2004, and now she wishes she could take it back.

The fact that people are making a big deal out of CA's decision (as they should be) is generating conversation among people who normally don't even think about gay marriage. That, in my opinion, is a very good thing.

*OPTIMIST!*

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

THIS IS NOT A COMPROMISE ISSUE.

Effing Word.

[genmaicha.livejournal.com]

Yeah. What the hell happened to progressive California? Oh, right, hate group propaganda, getting people who were unsure where they stood afraid that gay marriage would affect them personally, force their churches to hold gay weddings, make their children learn about homosexuality in class...

Upholding the rights of a few to maintain their marriages is the tiny shred of silver tinsel in this huge ugly thunderstorm.

[tommx.livejournal.com]

Well, apparently people's rights are based on how fast they can act before the state allows them to be ripped away.

[marieoroumania.livejournal.com]

And upon their perceived identity based on the flimsy social construct of "sex!"

I can't convey to you how sorry I am about this.

[eac.livejournal.com]

I had already understood that the court wasn't going to overturn Prop 8 because of the way the arguements went. I'm relieved that they didn't just divorce thousands of people (many of them my friends).

Now I need to know how best to lend my efforts to knock Prop 8 over, because I think the will of the people will change.

[lordcamiliano.livejournal.com]

This is entirely a civil rights issue. The thing I keep reminding myself of is that this anti-gay-marriage group is the same group that's always been against civil rights for anyone who's different than them. I also still think the bigots' fear of gay marriage is the same fear that used to drive them to force left-handed people to write right-handed. We managed to get past that stupidity as a culture and it's inevitable that we'll get past this, too.

[jendaby.livejournal.com]

You put this very well. I am still in too much a state of disappointment and the inability to comprehend how these people can be so cruel and heartless to really be very coherent. :(

Re: I can't convey to you how sorry I am about this.

[eac.livejournal.com]

...and god, if it isn't clear (and it wouldn't be, since I didn't say it) -- I AM incredibly angry that the state of California believes people can VOTE on whether to give other people fundamental rights.

[idunn.livejournal.com]

I like what telfest wrote on this (http://telfest.livejournal.com/58326.html).

[offbalance.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more with any of the things you've said here. Are you okay with me linking to this in my journal?

[herself_nyc]

Word.

[fragiletender.livejournal.com]

I am so bloody TIRED of the bigots. I wish, just for once, they'd mind their own damn business and get on with their own lives instead of doing their best to ruin everyone else's.

[vashtan.livejournal.com]

Let me get this straight (non-native) - IOWA allows gays to marry, California doesn't?

(I need to purge all ideas I had about Cali from my brain and switch stuff around with Iowa)

[idunn.livejournal.com]

I recall reading somewhere that Iowa was one of the first states to strike down the miscegenation laws, believe it or not.

[vashtan.livejournal.com]

Oh, I believe it. It just so doesn't gel with my stereotypes... Amazing.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

Prior to Loving?

[nex0s.livejournal.com]

THIS.

N.

Re: I can't convey to you how sorry I am about this.

[hllangel]

I'm not sure what the next move will be. Obviously we have to keep fighting. But I think we need a new plan, since the no-on-8 campaign didn't work.

We're getting there, but this was a big step back.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

What you said. Amen.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Loving forced the States' hands. Iowa volunteered, IIRC.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Ditto.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Feel free.

[rm.livejournal.com]

go ahead

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

There is a history of progressivism in Iowa:http://bit.ly/mkc8L

[cozzene.livejournal.com]

My only guess is that a new suit or it will now be appealed to the US Supreme court. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I assume it will just be another kick in the pants.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Thank you. May I link to this blog post else where, and may I also quote uou by name?

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's all fine.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Thank you, and thank you for always putting it out there.
Peace and Love. We SHALL overcome.

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

This is just... ugh. D:

Not that I can speak, as my own country doesn't have marriage equality -- we don't even have the weak subsititute of civil unions -- and neither major party here will put it on the agenda. I'm hoping that after the next election the Greens get more sway in the senate (and maybe even a couple of lower house seats) so they can push the issue... but it shouldn't be an issue at all.

Re: I can't convey to you how sorry I am about this.

[nobodyreally.livejournal.com]

"I AM incredibly angry that the state of California believes people can VOTE on whether to give other people fundamental rights."

THIS.
THIS.
THIS.
THIS.
THIS.
THIS.

damnit

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

I am so obscenely displeased about this.

I may have just fired up my Dead Kennedys collection.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

Icon love. For real.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Fuck, I hate this.

[kaffy_r]

Lack of logic: check.
Torturous legal language, suggesting that the concurring judges knew damned well that they were full of shit: check.
Shadow on the state of justice: check.

Chance this shit will ultimately stand: 0 percent.
Chance this shit is wrong NOW, hurts people NOW and should be ended NOW, regardless of its eventual disappearance: 100 percent.

If I calm down and post something on this later tonight, I'd be delighted to be able to link to this.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Feel free. I'm working on a thing, but the process of writing it is sort of horrible.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Not upholding the rights of a few to maintain their marriages would have been so without legal precedent that it would almost guarantee that the Supreme court would have to hear it.

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

I don't have anything useful to say other than that this is just a big huge mess of ass. And not in the good way.

[fitfool.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to chime in that I was disappointed by the court's decision (though not surprised).