sundries -- mostly Buffy and Angel edition

[rm]

Tonight we are seeing The Fairy Queen, and I am so excited.

Last night we watched:

Angel 1.8, which hit me where I live with the Children of Earth stuff. I thought there was something not dissimilar to the tone of the goodbye between Buffy and Angel to the big Day 4 death scene, and it really got me. I also am, necessarily, both as a memoirist and a Torchwood fan interested in the connection between memory and life. And, while the episode had a lot of cheesy crap in it (the Oracle visitation set was awful), I loved the actual makeup design and performances from the Oracles. I also felt that this was the first time I really felt chemistry between Buffy and Angel and the first time I really enjoyed watching David Borreanaz, it's like his performances are deeply, deeply stifled under Angel's misery, which he has no idea how to execute for us.

Buffy 4.9, MADE OF HILARIOUS AWESOME. Anyway, so is Spike going to stay defanged for the whole of the series? That really lowers the stakes (ha, ha) in a lot of issues and strikes me as narratively weak. On the other hand, I love Willow getting a business card from a demon.

Angel 1.9, about which I have too much to say on too many fronts. It's a very effective episode, somewhat in spite of itself. I found the half-demon group very effectively portrayed, and when we first seem them hiding in their squalor, I didn't even realize we were at the obligatory Nazi-motif episode of every science fiction or fantasy show.

Here's what did work: The design of the Scourge. Specifically the design of the Scourge guy we see talking the most, who, unlike the others doesn't look like a mass of rotting flesh, but like he is wearing neat mask of laced skin; I thought, instantly, of lampshades. The pacing. The moment where the runaway half-demon kid tells Doyle he's got his directions turned around and for a split second you think collaborator. Angel, working as one. The fleeing to South America. The container ship. The evocation of Nazi occultism. These Holocaust allegory references were much more complex and detailed than I'm used to seeing in this type of episode, and I was moved and impressed and intellectually stimulated and taken aback.

But here's what didn't work: The fucking uniforms. They were too evocative of the Nazi's. They became a distraction and prevented the Scourge from being their own terror. Same with the very WWII-era jeeps and bikes. I found it profoundly distracting.

Here's what was just odd, and I'm not sure how I feel about it: The whole "chosen one" thing. I didn't actually find it at all grating in the moment of the episode, but to tack Christian savior mythology onto an episode that's a Holocaust allegory is intellectually awkward for me.

And then, of course there's the rest of what happens in the episode. Doyle sacrifices himself, and at the end, we see Cordelia and Angel watching that video tape from the opening of the show. "Is that it? Am I done?" And then silence. It was extraordinarily powerful. I never even liked the character that much, and I felt gutted, and it seemed like a wrong thing, a sinful thing to make a sound into that silence. It also, again, punched a CoE-related button for me, related to how the last of the Torchwood novelizations (the short story book) ended, and I felt like I needed to get up and walk around and shake it off me, these terrible things, but it was bedtime, so you know....

Right when I started watching Angel one of you all said "and poor Glenn Quinn," so I looked it up. And then I knew Doyle was going to die, and then I knew Quinn was an addict and in every scene for the entire bit he was in the series, I found myself trying not to grieve this actor who's work I had never heard of before and didn't care about all that much, but I couldn't not in every moment of his oddly translucent eyes, and his pasty skin and that clamminess that sort of came off the screen. It was horrible. And distracting. And the poor bastard was dead, and not like Doyle, and I couldn't really stand it.

Once again though, Whedon proves my point about we get angry at the deaths in his shows, but do not need to mourn for the characters as if they were real. The other characters mourn for us, on screen, and so we need not be conscripted into these roles.

Also, I want a t-shirt that says Oppressed Demon People.

Comments

[5251962.livejournal.com]

That Doyle episode, oh man- I wasn't all that partial to the character either and the lip started going out, the whole eyeball welling, full nine with the video tape at the end bit. I hadn't really gotten that into it because I don't usually but oooow.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I dare not squee too much because there's such good stuff still to come and I don't want to spoil it for you, but I want to mention that I am really enjoying reading your recaps of Buffy and Angel. The Angel/Torchwood connections just leap out at me now.

[elisi]

The whole "chosen one" thing. I didn't actually find it at all grating in the moment of the episode, but to tack Christian savior mythology onto an episode that's a Holocaust allegory is intellectually awkward for me.
It's very strange, but both Joss and RTD continually play with Saviour narratives, despite (or because of?) being staunch atheists. I'm still trying to work out what to make of that.

Doyle sacrifices himself, and at the end, we see Cordelia and Angel watching that video tape from the opening of the show. "Is that it? Am I done?" And then silence. It was extraordinarily powerful.
*nods* One of the things I like the best is that he was just a guy. That's one of the things these shows do very well - show us the heroism in ordinary people.

Buffy 4.9, MADE OF HILARIOUS AWESOME.
It is a thing of pure beauty. Also, I love the fact that even though they're under a spell, Spike and Buffy *keep* arguing.

Anyway, so is Spike going to stay defanged for the whole of the series? That really lowers the stakes (ha, ha) in a lot of issues and strikes me as narratively weak.
Sh, spoilers! :)

(Oh I could talk about this all day, but have to run. But love this post!)

ETA: Meant to say that it's fascinating to see how you view these shows through the lens of Torchwood, since I did the opposite.

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

I never even liked the character that much, and I felt gutted, and it seemed like a wrong thing, a sinful thing to make a sound into that silence.

That's exactly how I felt when I watched that episode back in the day. Whatever else one might say about Whedon as a writer, when he kills a character you feel it.

*

Wow, Fairy Queen looks amazing. *opens browser tab, considers ticket prices, gnaws lip*

[rm.livejournal.com]

There is apparently one seat left in the whole theater for the whole run. If you're going to do it, call them now.

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

Huh. According to the seat-selection thingumbob, there are two seats. They are, of course, in the crazy expensive section, alas. I shall have to pass, and hope that the production appears elsewhere sometime soon.

[ladyaelfwynn.livejournal.com]

Fairy Queen sounds amazing! Wish I was close enough to get to see it.

[nehmet.livejournal.com]

In defense of David Boreanaz, I have to say that he inhabits the character of Agent Booth on Bones much more deeply and believably than he ever did Angel. He's had a few years to grow as an actor, though. :)

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I'm so with you on the lampshades! I don't know how many would get that...

It's one of the episodes I find both hard to watch and compelled to for various reasons, Nazi imagery and talk of "purity" are big freak-out triggers for me and also something that fascinate me in a morbid sort of way.

Also, I want a t-shirt that says Oppressed Demon People.
Haha, yes, this!

[rm.livejournal.com]

I'm really curious to see if other people tweaked to the lampshade thing. I'm also really curious if that was an intentional design choice or not. I mean, it may just be us, but it seemed so obvious and fucked (and also, very weirdly in keeping with that whole Nazi fetishization of the degenerate thing if the demons were using the skin of the half-breeds they reviled to construct themselves). There is so an academic paper in this.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

The whole episode was absolutely fucked! There are plenty of disturbing eps on Angel (but whenever skin is involved, gah!), but it did seem to take things to the extreme with that episode.
It also ties in with the fact that on Earth there are no "pure" demons, they have to be brought forth (like the Mayor), so it dialogued with the whole Hitler himself was a Jew trope and took self-hatred to the max.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I also thought, how interesting if both shows were going to have military themes for the season -- The Scourge on Angel and The Initiative on Buffy, but Patty says that was a one off. Which is a pity. That could have gone to some really risky places with it.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, no. I was actually happy the Scourge disappeared, I wasn't sure I was going to be able to handle them as the Big Bad, I mean, Angel just doesn't have the man power!

There are parallels with Scourge and the Initiative, but I won't say any more!

[paulshandy.livejournal.com]

Actually, there are entire books of academic papers on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Not so much on Angel, I'm afraid.

[matthewwdaly.livejournal.com]

Spike isn't quite defanged, as he can attack demons without the chip going off. It's actually used quite effectively.

And, yeah, D'Hoffryn is a class act all around.

[firefly124.livejournal.com]

Anyway, so is Spike going to stay defanged for the whole of the series? That really lowers the stakes (ha, ha) in a lot of issues and strikes me as narratively weak.

You don't actually want an answer to that, do you? At any rate, it's a far more involved question than you realize, and the only answer I can even think to give is that this is when Spike actually started to get interesting to me, though I've never been much of a Spike fangirl.

[supremegoddess1.livejournal.com]

I am a total Spike fangirl, and this is *exactly* when he became really interesting to me...he's such a complex character...

[qthelights.livejournal.com]

Ditto. Me three. My love of Spike only grew from Season 4 onwards.

[sanginmychains.livejournal.com]

Ditto. The end of Buffy S2 asked, when we take away everythign you use to fight, your friends, your emotional support, your weapons, what do you have? And the answer (cue swelling hero music) was "me. So Spike her loses his ability to feed, his ability to do violence to humans, his dignity, and his support network, and he's forced to find what makes him himself. Interesting territory. So often the villains aren't allowed to be all that interesting, but nobody ever thinks they're the bad guy, eh? Everyone is the protagonist of their own lives.

[supremegoddess1.livejournal.com]

I still miss Doyle.

[qthelights.livejournal.com]

Once again though, Whedon problems my point about we get angry at the deaths in his shows, but do not need to mourn for the characters as if they were real. The other characters mourn for us, on screen, and so we need not be conscripted into these roles.

This. And I think this is why a lot of us were so gutted by CoE. Because that is simply not how we have learned to deal with death on television. I think there were a lot of us who were in TW who had come from Buffy/Angel, you know?

I won't spoil things for you, but there's more death in both series (i mean obviously, they go for so long and are about danger, it's bound to happen) and the way in which they are treated is just.. I want to say beautiful, but it isn't even that, because of course death isn't.. realistic seems to raw..
let's go with honest, powerful and dignified. Well, you'll see :)

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

I am actually going to gently counterargue -- without hopefully giving away spoilers -- that The Body in Season 5 of Buffy is so so powerful (and in my opinion head and shoulders and torso above any other eps in that entire series) because it IS so hyper-real.

It is PRECISELY how these things happen. Which all at the same time makes it more frightening and yet more comforting.

[qthelights.livejournal.com]

No absolutely. I had that ep in mind as I was commenting. I agree that it is hyper-real. Absolutely. I was more trying to find the words to encompass all of them :) The body.. *shudder* it's.. hard to watch. And yet not, because it is somehow comforting in the fact that we all go through that.. we all have those questions and those responses and sense of loss.

But yes, I don't wanna spoil rm so :)

[sanginmychains.livejournal.com]

"Am I done?"

It's a heartbreaking line. Whedon does these wrenching deaths with these mundane-on-paper, gutting-in-execution lines. "Oh, your shirt..." "Why can't I stay?" (I don't think I'm spoilering you with those? Slap me if I am, I don't know how spoiler averse you are). Okay that last one, not mundane on paper, it's a brutal question no matter how you ask it. Dying with someone, dying alone, dying suddenly without warning, dying while being a hero to save one person, to save the world, being sick for a long time and knowing it's coming but hoping it won't... in the Whedonverse, it *hurts* so hard, every time.

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

When you get toward the end of Angel (Last season, I want to say), there will be Yet Another Nazi-Themed Episode.

But with more hilarity. I promise.

Doyle always seemed to be an afterthought for me. Until he wasn't. If that makes sense.

[ithinkitisayit.livejournal.com]

OH! YES! I remember that one :D Yes, it *was* quite funny :D I didn't like it and found it boring the first time I watched, though. I only watched it the second time because a fanfic mentioned the ep and I didn't remember much from that.

S4 has funny eps :D Just wait until Faith appears again! XD

[frodo-esque.livejournal.com]

Angel 1.8 is among my favorites; a really emotional episode which touched me deeply.

I adored Doyle. Admittedly, some of it was because I had a pretty serious crush on him (what can I say? He's my type), but also because his life ended way too soon.

I kind of wish you didn't know he was going to die though... people have to be really careful with spoilers.

Re: Spike

[nicoli-dominn.livejournal.com]

...Not quite. Don't worry. ;-)

[redeem147.livejournal.com]

Once again though, Whedon problems my point about we get angry at the deaths in his shows, but do not need to mourn for the characters as if they were real. The other characters mourn for us, on screen, and so we need not be conscripted into these roles.


What a wonderful way to put it.

And as I've said before, I'm so enjoying watching the show again through your eyes.

[gwyd.livejournal.com]

When I saw the early episodes, I thought Doyle was meant to be secretly an addict, because I didn't know until you told me.

I don't know how to feel about that.