Doctor Who

[rm]

1. HOW CAN ANYONE HATE RIVER SONG? She's Jack, but with tits and frizzy hair. As someone with tits and frizzy hair I hate the haters on River Song. Seriously, the Jack references are SO OBVIOUS -- the drape of that dress is the girl version of Jack's coat; her lines are just as bad, and that teeny tiny blaster is the same model as the one pulled out of John Hart's ass in KKBB. Hell, I bet she's slept with John Hart.

2. I love the 51st Century! Oh, the things this season is doing with the military.

3. Wait, back to River Song.... the very good man she killed... it's the Doctor, isn't it?

4. Wow, I'm working on something related to how sacrifice of one's life is the gold standard for heroism in the Whoniverse and how that prevents the show's narrative heroes (the Doctor and Jack, primarily) from ever being actual heroes by the show's own definintion and wow this episode just handed me everything I needed on a platter with Octavian.

"Ready?" the Doctor asks.

"Content," comes the response.

The Doctor and Jack can never sacrifice themselves for anyone, can never be content!!!!

5. And if you think I didn't find that resonant with Ianto's death too, you're out of your mind.

6. Rory's speech about how the Doctor destroys people because they want to make him proud!!! Spot on! Also resonant with pretty much all the fuckery that goes down in Torchwood.

7. This season is weird in that it feels more like a children's show in pacing, exposition and staging, and yet the dark, dark, dark themes are still there. Silence and genocide! Ah, Doctor!

8. I didn't feel like "Vampires of Venice" was a major episode, but I suspect it will be so in retrospect.

9. Extension of the Weeping Angel mythology is challenging, at least to my Jack/Weeping Angel, eye-gouging sex fic, but I can work with it.

9.5 -- Oh hey, when River tells the Doctor that there's "a thing in there that can't die" did anyone else go "OH SHIT, THE DOCTOR THINKS IT'S JACK?"

10. Yeah, I'm not well.

11. There is truth in the meta on this show.

"That's a fairytale."

"So are we."

!!!!!!

12. Oh, oh, oh the things about death!!! Never being born vs. just dying. The horror of being undone as opposed to dead. Oh!

Right, so in three days I'll be in a plane over the Atlantic. I can't even process it. I think the idea that I can break this mood is probably bullshit. I'm just going to be in a weird space for a few days, and it is what it is.

In speaking with my mother on the phone earlier it occurred to me, not for the first time, but for the first time in a while, that I can only write -- in any genre, really -- from a place of sadness, of longing, of desire, of mourning, regardless of whether I'm writing something sad or not. It's just one of those Ways That I Am, but right now I feel very tired out by it.

My mother was saying how my paper is about something so neat and fun earlier, and I was like "Mom, it's awesome. I love what I'm doing work on, and I think my subject is fascinating, and quirky, and beautiful and really, really elegant. But it's sad. And it's exhausting to have to spend so much time in other people's grief, some of which I share and some of which I don't understand at all. And I do it every day, because I'm looking at everything I'm reading and watching through this lens, every day. I watch a show I love, and I sit there watching it through 'he's dead, he's dead, he's dead' so no matter how excited I am by this scholarship, RIGHT NOW I AM VERY TIRED."

Getting to say that made me feel about 200% better, too. But death project moratorium for a week post-Bristol (it's one reason I'm doing the Imperial War Museum before the conference and not after) before I start working on the D*C presentation. I suspect this will all feel moderately different on July 10. I can't wait. Take me there.

Meanwhile, as much as I don't buy this Doctor as a sexual creature (Nine wanted to fuck, Ten wanted to have his heart broken, Eleven doesn't want to think about how fucked up he was as Nine and Ten), anyone got any Amy/Rory/Eleven that will change my mind?

Comments

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

You are going to LOVE the finale. :)

Very interesting observations about sacrifice, and what you're saying about the Doctor and Jack makes a lot of sense.

I'm not sure Ianto's death can be framed as a sacrifice, however, because nothing was gained from it. In my mind, for something to be a sacrifice, rather than a waste, it needs to be some sort of exchange -- "I give up X, so that Y can happen". In Ianto's case, it seemed to be more a case of "If I succeed, I live, if I fail, I die" -- and he KNEW he was going to fail/die (well, at least I think he did -- that is, of course, a matter of interpretation).

(Yeah, my latest theory on "why many people found Ianto's death emotionally unsatisfying" -- one day, I will stop coming up with these. :P)

[tree00faery.livejournal.com]

I KNOW RIGHT?! I love River Song to bits. She only gets more awesome, too. I have friends that don't like her, and I'm like, "We cannot be friends." (Kidding, of course. But I don't get it.)

Totally agreed about #s 4-7.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Octavian's death wasn't useful either, just unavoidable. What interested me about it was that he was so ready.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

Hell, I bet she's slept with John Hart.

Who hasn't?

I cannot dislike any 51st century characters. At all. Except for Gray, because Gray's an asshole.

[rm.livejournal.com]

SECRET BROTHER IS NOT A VALID PLOT.

[dremiel.livejournal.com]

Love. River!

Also, thrilled that The Boy loves River! Yay! Another in the very long line of smart, tough women who can kick his butt that he has crushed on in fic and in RL! This trend makes me happy and gives me much hope for his future!

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay, I see what you mean. Sorry, my brain was just going off on a tangent about the sacrifice thing (I actually discuss the way that notions of sacrifice work to uphold a Cartesian framework in my thesis, so my brain just went there).

Btw, I really love River Song too. I've always liked her, but she definitely comes into her own in this series.

[shehasathree]

My mother was saying how my paper is about something so neat and fun earlier, and I was like "Mom, it's awesome. I love what I'm doing work on, and I think my subject is fascinating, and quirky, and beautiful and really, really elegant. But it's sad. And it's exhausting to have to spend so much time in other people's grief, some of which I share and some of which I don't understand at all. And I do it every day, because I'm looking at everything I'm reading and watching through this lens, every day. I watch a show I love, and I sit there watching it through 'he's dead, he's dead, he's dead' so no matter how excited I am by this scholarship, RIGHT NOW I AM VERY TIRED."

Getting to say that made me feel about 200% better

hi! i love reading your posts.
i'm in the final stages of writing up my undergraduate thesis right now, and my topic is self-injury (and the ways it's represented in various texts, etc etc) and it took me a long time to get here and sometimes i just stop in amazement that 'omg this is my life!' it's so wonderful to be able to work with this topic and theory and it's very exciting to see my ideas taking shape and getting to share them with people.

BUT - i'm writing about self-injury. it's hard, and sad, and emotionally draining, and i think a lot of my procrastination about writing my thesis has come from a place of not really wanting to engage with the emotional side of my work, and the emotions it brings out in me.

so thanks for posting that, because it really helped me crystallise that emotional side of my work. i really appreciate that.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Well, I think we probably disagree on how ready Ianto was to die, too, but if we keep it over on Jack and the Doctor we can probably nod along pretty well ;) And I'm recognizing the intensity of my own emotions right now and sort of trying to talk about them but not their subject, because I need to stay contained and focused.

BUT RIVER SONG IS AWESOMECAKES.

[alt_universe_me.livejournal.com]

Yay for River Song love! Seriously, River Song is awesome. I don't get the hate for her either. And her character just keeps getting better and better. I'm going to shut up now so I don't accidentally spoil you for anything :)

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

I <3 River Song so much. I'm glad you seem to be liking this season so far. If you're interested, btw, I wrote wee bit of meta" on "Flesh and Stone. I don't go into the issue of sacrifice, but I talk a lot about faith, which is not irrelevant.

[rm.livejournal.com]

It's not. I think the religion stuff that goes on in DW is some of the most interesting stuff out there, despite the officially atheistic perspective of the show.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

I agree. I must admit that I didn't find RTD's "Tinkerbell Jesus Doctor" take very compelling, but Moffats "you have to walk like you can see" metaphor BLEW ME AWAY. Once I figured it out, anyway, which wasn't until my second time through. (Even though HELLO! Clerics and angels, could he have been more obvious?)

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

Yeah, sorry, I shouldn't have gone off on that bit of speculation, since you just said about how hard you're finding this (and also, I think I disagree with myself about how ready Ianto was to die, so... :P).

Anyway, YES. RIVER SONG. I would say "she rules" but that belongs to Liz X. So instead I will say OMG HER AWESOME KEEPS GROWING EXPONENTIALLY, AND AT SOME POINT THERE NEEDS TO BE A DOCTOR/RIVER/JACK OT3, BECAUSE OMG HOW GREAT WOULD THAT BE? :D

[rm.livejournal.com]

Soldier Bob -> Cleric Bob -> Angel Bob was BRILLIANCE.

As is the line you cite.

My main religious interest in the RTD years revolves around the Ood narrative and "Impossible Planet"/"Satan Pit". RTD's work has a lot of things that don't work for me or that I find just fundamentally flawed, but I think the things he has to say about desire, language and mythology and how that does and doesn't correlate with our divine natures is ALWAYS interesting.

[rm.livejournal.com]

We will talk about Ianto after July 9. I think we can both agree that this week is not that week.

RIVER SONG SHOULD HAVE AWESOME 51ST CENTURY SEX WITH EVERYONE.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

Hmmmmmmmmm. You know, it's been a long time since I've seen those episodes, since they fall in S2, which I find really annoying because of Ten/Rose shenanigans (blech). But I might have to revisit them.

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

Yes. And after I re-watch CoE with fandom people on July 10th, which I'm actually really looking forward to. :)

SHE SHOULD.

DAMN, I NEED TO WRITE THIS. I HAVE UNFILLED KINK BINGO SQUARES, SO THERE IS NO EXCUSE NOT TO.

[gwyd.livejournal.com]

I like River song herself, but I am, as always, a little squicked by the implication she might have sex with him at some point. I was also seriously squicked by him am and rose. Time Lords having sex with humans hits my age taboo hard ayt the samwe time it feels like bestiality. the exception to my no humans and Ztime Lords taboo would be Jack once he's had a few centuries in him, because by then they are coming from similar places. I repeat, it's not river, it's me not wanting to see him kiss humans particularly.

River herself? Freaking glorious. I always liked the tough, competent companions best. (Another thing I didn't like about rose). She fits that, so I'm comfortable watching her be tough and competent.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I forget the exact line, but the Doctor says something like "it is not the urge to jump, but the desire to fall" and it's so critical to the series. Because just capitalize the F. That's the romance, Doctor Who provides us with, a positive, nearly gnostic worldview in which characters like Jack and the Doctor (driven by impulse and commitrers of great sin in the name of larger salvations that leave themselves behind) are the people we want to be. It's wild. It's the "hey, here's what we're up to" episode, without knowing it, I think.

[rm.livejournal.com]

See, I don't have Old Who exposure, so the Doctor and sex isn't the hard line for me I know it is for many people, but I can accept that objection. It's the random misogyny that I see leveled at River Song a lot that drives me mad.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

Oooh. Wow, yeah. I'd never thought of it that way.

New Who, though, is about that. I've just watched some Classic Who and I don't think that's what it was about at all. I'm not quite sure what it was about, but I think one of the things I'm interested in long-term is the question of how the show has changed, fundamentally.

I'm taking a class in the fall on Narrative and Ethics (as in the ethics of a particular narrative, not the ethics of narrative in general). I predict many posts about Who in relation to this topic.

[rm.livejournal.com]

This conversation is the Alonso Frame of fandom mourning. "We are sad about Ianto; 51st century sex!"

[rm.livejournal.com]

Awesome....

(I get really into gnostic narratives in fiction, especially ones that seem to appear accidentally or organically. The second Matrix movie (in which I think it's entirely intentional, actually) does this, and it's brilliant and fascinating and then completely not delivered on. But it's why I love the second movie the best of the three, because I kept sitting up and going "they're not seriously....?")

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

LOL.

So, right now, I'm thinking "gags" prompt, Jack/River (I can't work the Doctor in there because [redacted because it contains a Season finale spoiler]). Jack is the one who is gagged.