[personal profile] rm
Sometimes, in the fact of the current election, it is hard for me to think, or to function. The entire situation makes me nearly apoplectic, on a nearly constant basis.

I do not, for the record, think Bush is Satan, which is of course what those who are planning to vote for Kerry are generally accused of. Nor do I think Kerry is the answer to all of our woes, and I think I've talked about that enough to not go into it here.

What I'm realizing is some people I know are going to vote for Bush. And when it's people on my friends list who live far away who I don't really know and that I've had intelligent conversations with, I feel okay about that, and I feel okay with feeling okay about that.

What I'm realizing though is that when it's people I know face to face, I feel betrayed and threatened on a nearly illogically visceral level.

Except, when I think back to certain events in my life, I realize it's not that illogical, even if it's not entirely rational.

I've talked a great deal about my political involvements in university, and many of you know the far longer version of the story I am about to tell.

In my freshman year, I had a horribly stormy relationship with my roommate, and eventually moved out. When I wound up dating a woman, I then received threats of rape on the phone, and to my face, from her friends who were College Republicans and members of Young Americans for Freedom, and in the course of these threats invoked campus and national politics, and attempted to pin some of the threats on the president of the College Democrats. Aside from having guards psoted outside my dorm door and losing my scholarship (which led to a debacle of proportions I don't care to go into with my family and finances), I was also the subject of an editorial debate in the school papers.

It was, in short, extraordinarily awful.

As a fan of small goverment and social freedoms, and without a personal adhearance to a Judeo-Christian faith or many of its accompanying moralities, voting always puts me in a difficult place. I am much less liberal than many of my friends on many issues and much more so on many others. And while I believe that 99% of anyone who thinks they understand economics without being an economist is a complete jackass, I'm certainly more informed, if not more comprehending than most.

Certainly, I know that many of my friends face the constantly annoying choice as to whether to vote on money or social issues. I'm just always surprised when they choose money.

To me, money is always something that can be sorted out. I've always found a way to scrape, struggle or survive. I've been fucked by tax policies from both sides, and I've been both wealthy and dirt poor. But, as hysterical and emotional as it makes me, at the end of the day, money is just money, and maybe I feel that way because I'm a woman. I may be a tom boy, but more than anything girls always know about plan B. Hell, it may be because I don't have a family, but truthfully, I don't really think so. I vote on the social issues because money I can sort out, I can finagle, I can solve. And even in some very black moments, several of them this year, money is never what's keeping me alive and will never be what kills me.

So I vote on stuff like civil liberties, abortion and gay rights, effectiveness on the war on terror and just a general sense of whether a candidate seems to think America is for all Americans or just the ones that agree with them. I know that a lot of people may think this childish, or naive, and I suppose my only defense is to tell you that it is neither of those things... just womanly instead.

And it is womanly not because I am weak, or a single issue voter or ignorant of finances. Rather it is womanly because one of those shits I went to college with is a senate aide now. And he raped a friend of mine, and he broke her collar bone doing it.

I don't think anything dumb like Republicans or Democrats are rapists, or that our leaders would condone the sort of behavior I both witnessed and was subjected to (a list which is far longer than anything I've written here). But my experiences stay with me, and my sense from my university experience, or just watching Dan Quayle on TV all those years ago is that the Republican party doesn't want me -- in their big tent, or in my country.

Because I'm a woman. Because I am queer. Because I've had an abortion. Because I am from the Northeast. Because I am from New York. Because I am educated. Because I am a Jew, and even less white than that in small measure besides.

Somewhere along the line I learned that your government holds your life in its hands. I don't know when I learned it. I don't know if I learned when I had my Soviet penpal who was never able to write me, or when I wrote for a history class a diary of a woman living in Chile under Pinochet (a project that probably sounds absurd now, but it got me into advanced creative writing classes at Yale as a 15-year-old). Maybe I learned it when I did clinic defense and women prayed for me before spitting on me. Some stuck pins into my legs. Maybe I learned it in Act-Up protests or lying on a bed in a hospital hallway in DC, when there wasn't anywhere to put a girl with a kidney infection because of all the people coming in with gunshot wounds (you see that, and you don't have problems, and fast). Maybe I learned it when the nurse with a pentacle necklace shushed me when I recognized it, or when the head of Women's Issues Now at University had "kyke" scrawled on her living room window. Maybe I learned it in rape threats or abortion or in walking seventeen miles through Washington DC with a friend of mine who served eight fucking years in Vietnam and had never gone to the wall until he went there with me.

It doesn't matter where I learned it, I only know the experiences I learned it in, all strike me as horribly ordinary and that the knowledge sits with me as utter unshakeable truth. And while I would never attempt to compare my patriotism to anyone's because I think it crass, I do love this place and believe in it both as practical fact and idealistic concept, which I should damn well hope is evidenced by a good chunk of my writing about all of this.

But to get back to the point -- while I've always been a little uncomfortable when my friends vote Republican (even when I've toyed with the idea more than once), it's a little different now. And I'm sorry. I want to be a bigger person about it. I want to be able to say what I feel when I hear Barak Obama talk about one America.

But I can't. Because I'm scared. Because to me, all elections, and specifically this election, is about my life -- not the quality of it, but its mere existence. So when people I know vote for the other guy -- I don't think they are evil, or stupid or anything dumb like that. They're being Americans -- Hell, at least they are voting, that's awesome! But it's very hard for me not to think of them as self-interested, and even harder for me not to think of them as unsafe for me to be around. Certainly, it's nearly impossible for me to consider that they could view me as their equal, and it presents without a doubt a fairly plausible barrier to friendship, as I'm not real down with people who think it's cool or comfortable to hang out with or play with the marginalized groups, but aren't real comfortable with the marginalized groups not wanting to be marginalized (this goes for people that want "crazy creative bi-chicks" to date but not marry, as well as fandom people who write slash and don't support gay rights, and white people who want hip hop played at their parties as long as the crowd isn't "urban" -- to list just a few trite and hideous examples of which I've seen a bit too much).

I don't know if it's insanely rude to write this, but it seemed more decent to, than not to, because I don't want people I know to feel guilty or weird, and I don't want them to think I'm an asshole either. I just kinda want them to know why this election is making me so nuts, and what this body means to me and to understand that a lot of us who are crazed about this election aren't apoplectic because we've been ingesting dogma or like being contrary or aren't patriots or whatever -- it's just for some of us... it's more personal, and less abstract. Rightly or wrongly.

So I'm trying, okay?

Date: 2004-08-07 07:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pecunium.livejournal.com
I am loathe to write, "Me too" type posts, which merely praise the sentiments, and add nothing, but this is such a complete summa of things I believe, feel and (without most of the apparent heartaches in coming to) share, that I must voice an opinion, and I can say is,

"Hear, Hear."

I will, if you permit, link to this, or; if you prefer, merely quote it.

Tk

Date: 2004-08-07 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
Feel free to link to it, although because I write under my real name, this entry may become friends only at some point in the future, so if there's something specific, I'd also suggest you quote (which doesn't bother me).

Date: 2004-08-07 08:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starkyld.livejournal.com
i can't say anything that would add to what you've already written, but i wanted to thank you for writing this.

Date: 2004-08-08 05:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
NP.... I'm guessing you're reacting, at least on some level to the thing on your friends list too?

Date: 2004-08-07 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heron61.livejournal.com
Another impressive and admirable post. I am perhaps lucky in that literally no one I know (except for a few people in the gaming industry who I already casually dislike) is even considering voting for Bush. I'm not certain how I would handle anyone I was even remotely close to doing so - at this point, I'm fairly sure that I would try to argue them out of doing so and then if they did not change their mind, I would completely cease associating with them - I simply do not want to be even casually close to anyone who supports almost any of Bush's policies. I consider Bush and his allies to be a serious threat to my safety and the safety of my loved ones and I am simply not OK with associating with anyone who agrees with him. Perhaps I'm being narrow-minded, but I can't see any vision of a unified America anymore.

It's very difficult for me to see this election as anything other than a major battle in an increasingly hostile and pervasive culture war - one in which I am far from neutral. As much as I dislike Kerry, I'm also completely baffled at how anyone could be undecided as to who they are voting for. People who approve of what Bush is doing appall me, but people who have no opinion or who are uncertain completely baffle me.

Date: 2004-08-07 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bloo-stocking.livejournal.com
As others here have said, you have summed up so well what I've been feeling. I am not a Kerry supporter, nor am I a Democrat. After the 2000 election, I registered as a Green because I could not see the differences between the two major parties. Yes, I was one of those people who voted for Nader, and I don't regret it. I have become so cynical about US politics over the past few years. The Bush administration is so frightening on numerous levels. Is there one single aspect of our nation that Bush hasn't botched? And how much more of his "traditional family values" do we get shoved down our throats? Come November, I'll vote for Kerry only to get Bush out. Of course, I'm cynical that Kerry will do the right things. I'm cynical that my vote really doesn't matter. For the first time in my years of voting, I feel like I'm picking the "lesser of two evils" and it's awful to feel that way. It's late and I'm tired, but I just have to share this. I'm writing my MA thesis on Emma Goldman and her critique of the "social significance of modern drama." One of my favorite quotes of hers is so very appropriate right now: in 1919, she said "Sooner or later the American people are going to wake up." Well, Emma, we are STILL waiting for this to happen. Hopefully, we'll all wake up before November.

Date: 2004-08-07 09:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 00goddess.livejournal.com
This is very well said.

The thing is, the personal is always political, and in times like this, the political is more personal than ever. This really is a mattert of supporting hate and oppression.

It makes me intensely uncomfortable, bordering on upset, to think that someone who is my friend, someone who cares about me, as a person, would support a regime that dehumanizes me, that believes that I should not be extended the rights of a U.S. citizen. And make no mistake, that's what we're talking about here: we're talking about systemized oppression. We're talking about a campaign to take away the rights of some people, and extend special privilege to toehrs, based upon economic and ideological support.

To be honest, if I learned that someone close to me did so, I would have to re-evaluate my impression of that person. It would be very hard for me to think of someone as a "good person" if they choose to support an oppressive, murderous regime. It would be hard for me to think of someone as a friend, if they supported a regime that wants to deny me my basic civil rights, and in some cases even wishes me dead.

That's the difference, I think, between "us" and "them." "They" want to extend the rights guaranteed in the Constitution, only to those whom they choose, and they choose only those who agree with their agenda. "We" want to extend them to everyone- yeah, even those people who want to oppress us. I want them to absolutely have the right to do whatever they want, as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others. They don't want that for me.

Date: 2004-08-08 05:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
I added a bit more to this post after you posted it. The people in question aren't close, but are part of my f2f social circle, and I just can't get past the idea now, the more I've thought about it, that people like me aren't real -- just part of the entertainment. You know?

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Date: 2004-08-07 10:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fireincarnation.livejournal.com
We're at a very scary place right now, because we're only a step away from tyrany, and tyrany is a terrifying place to be.

My parents are voting for Bush, which would lower my oppinion of them, except that I already know they are morons. Somehow they are convinced that Bush is the only way to protect their rights.

I somehow wish there was a way to vote for the best cantidate, instead of the least worst, but it seems that has been what the choices are for a long time. Then we end up with presidents that do Felony Stupids like Clinton and Nixon, or presidents that *are* Felony Stupids, like Bush.

I wish that people weren't assholes, that they didn't do such horrible things to other people when they felt morally superior. I mean, I wouldn't go out and get an abortion: that's not right for me, but I'd defend to the death the right of any woman who felt it was right to get one. I'm not out to force my beliefs on someone else, but I will force one concept on everyone who I can force to swallow--tolerance. I just wish people weren't asses.

And I aggree with you . . . completely.

On forcing tolerance...

Date: 2004-08-10 10:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jerseycajun.livejournal.com
"...but I'd defend to the death the right of any woman who felt it was right to get one."

Abortion, despite what the Supreme Ct's ruling in the 70's stated, is not a Constitutional right. There is a more constitutional basis for abortion's illeagalization than for it's legalization. Though the Declaration of Indep. is not the framework for our Government, it is the document that informs the Constitution. The idea that governments are instituted among men to secure the transcendant rights of 'Life-Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" is not insignificant in identifying how we are to use the Constitution. The fact that Life is the first among these is also not insignificant. And then science has informed us on when life begins.

Re: On forcing tolerance...

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Re: On forcing tolerance...

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Date: 2004-08-07 10:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] adriang.livejournal.com
I agree with much of the position you write, and in fact, you put it so well that it seems like a shame almost, to disagree with any part of it. Before doing so, I'll point out that I am voting for Kerry, and I'll probably donate to his campaign, since I live in Kansas, and my vote for Kerry will likely be wasted, anyway.

My only point of disagreement is that there may be more than just concern about money behind some people's support of a less liberal tax policy. I am a liberal, myself, and I do support the idea that those of us who are more financially successful than average should pay a higher percentage of our income in taxes than those who are not. But it troubles me a great deal that many of my fellow liberals, including Kerry, seem so eager to throw around the word "Rich" like a swear word and whip up a frenzy of resentment in middle and lower income voters against anyone financially better off than they are. I work for a living, and I've put a lot of work into developing skills that have made me successful. When I hear some of my fellow liberals eager to make sure we make the rich "pay their fair share" when taxes are raised and to make sure that tax decreases should only be for the middle and lower classes, it's not hard to see where a few cycles of raising and lowering taxes would lead under that scheme; And when I see that the tax laws already discriminate against me, even though I'm certainly not "Rich" yet, it troubles me. Sure, those of us who are more comfortable (I won't say "more fortunate," because I paid my way through college and I EARN my current salary) should pay more, but it should be done according to rational principle, and not in a way that is driven by some political opportunist preaching resentment to the lower half of income earners against the upper half.

My government discriminates against me, because of my income, and it's not just a matter of paying a higher percentage in taxes; The easiest example is the fact that I can only contribute something less than half the money to my 401K plan as someone who makes 15K/year less than I do. I could understand not being able to contribute a lot more, but shouldn't I be allowed to put away as much for retirement as anyone who makes less than I do? I've crossed some threshold, where my government is starting to act like there must be something illegitimate about my income. I'm not saying this is a terrible problem, but I am saying that there are more than simple money concerns here, even if money is how some of the other concerns manifests themselves.

I really don't like John Kerry, but GWB represents the worst of excess and evil by fundamentalist christians in this country. He has shown his willingness to brush aside every one of the civil liberties he's sworn to protect. I'll vote for Kerry, and I'll probably contribute to his campaign, because he is clearly the lesser evil. I'll do these things knowing that if we are successful in getting him elected, he will continue to demonize the rich, and then under the table, slip those of us who are simply a bit more successful than usual in with "the rich" as victims of his tax policies. I expect try to help get Kerry elected, and then if I am successful, I expect Kerry to stab me in the back. The knife will be too short for more than a superficial wound, of course. The injuries I sustain will be nothing compared to what GWB has in mind for everyone who has the temerity to live lifestyles he and his mindless fanatical friends don't approve of.

You really are right to say that the harm I will face from Kerry is far less serious than the real evil done by Mr. Bush. You are right to say that I should put that irritation aside in favor of getting Bush out of office. But even if money is the easiest part to talk about, there is more to what Kerry is going to do wrong than mere money. Even relatively small injustices from government are troubling when they seem to come from unreasonable and unprincipled resentment against us. It's natural to fear where those attitudes may lead if they go unchecked.

Adrian

Date: 2004-08-08 05:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
*nodnodnod* I agree, and honestly, didn't get into it mostly out of exhaustion. I particularly find the throwing slurs around about people's incomes trite, and equivalent to teh demonizing being done about east coast colelge professor types or whatever it is this week.

There was an interesting piece in Business Week around tax time about the new tax laws, the Alternative Minimum Tax (which is a fucking nightmare that needs to be fixed in a big way), that included excellent data about the spread of incomes nationally (i.e., we keep hearing about the 2% of earners nationally, who are they?) and who thinks they are in given groups. I wish I could remember the numbers, but it was something weird and insane like 20% of the people think they are in the top 2% of earners, and twice that think they will get there. Which I suppose is both a vote for the optimism of American's, but also illustrates very clearly the problem with how cursory our national economic discussions are.

About a month ago, I filmed this thing about politics, that I can't really get into until it airs, but there was one women in the group who kept demanding "what am I going to get?" about every candidate. It made me realize this is how a lot of people vote, and while obviously, I vote self interested too -- we all do -- I never heard it reduced to "if I open an account with you do I get a free toaster?" before.

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Date: 2004-08-07 11:11 pm (UTC)
lawnrrd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lawnrrd
There's a lot more that I could say, but I think all I should say is: I'm trying, too.

Date: 2004-08-08 05:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
*nodnodnod*

Thank you for being gracious about what I've had to say here.

Eloquent and Heartfelt.

Date: 2004-08-08 12:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] talkshowhost.livejournal.com
That was perfect, and since I am loathe to simply say "me too", I feel I need to throw my 5 centavos in here.

I am a man, I am straight, I am mixed ethnicity that passes for white. I have an alright job, good friends, and nothing really to "complain" about....except the fact that people I love, I care for, I believe should have just as many rights as anyone else are being treated like outcasts, like offal, like those who shouldn't be allowed to breathe.

I mean, we're talking about people trying to add an amendment to the Constitution to deny a segment of the population the right to do something. The last time that happened, crime lords flourished making money on illegal booze, and we all saw how well THAT worked out. Thank you, Volstead Act!

A perfect example of my own personal feelings on the topic:

I am a game geek. I like to play computer games online, specifically first person shooters with my friends-Battlefield: 1942, Battlefield: Vietnam, etc. The group of friends I usually play with call ourselves The Argonauts, and have all taken Argonaut names-for example, I'm Orpheus. We all have different politics, but we generally ignore those to just have fun and talk trash and drink beer and shoot the bad guys.

Well, recently, one of the guys I play with has changed his gaming name to "Three Faked Purple Hearts". I shrugged my shoulders and rolled my eyes about it at first, but then, suddenly last night, I got really, really angry, and quit the game, and have pretty much decided that I don't want to have anything to do with him for the time being. Is that rational? No. Is it illogical? Yes. Do I feel at all upset about doing it? Not even a little bit.

I can't help but feel like this election is a lynch-pin for our future-that something more than simply who spends the next 4 years in office is going to be determined-and I, for one, cannot even comprehend how bad it could get.

A friend of mine put it best-the question we need to ask ourselves is, are you happy with the way things are, or do you want them to change? So, let's see-foreign policy in the toilet, overspending while riding the edge of a giant economic false bubble, civil liberties being taken away, trying to discriminate against fellow citizens based on sexual orientation....Yeah, I think I'll take a pass on that, George. In my mind, Kerry can't fuck up anything more than GW already has.

Once again, though, kudos to you for such a kick ass entry.

Date: 2004-08-08 08:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jonathankorman.livejournal.com
A very powerful essay, rm; I'll be passing on a link to my friends.

Reading it reminded me of Orcinus' essay The Political and the Personal (http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2003_11_23_dneiwert_archive.html#106970848149574609), which describes similar anguish for some different reasons.

There's one thing about growing up in a place like Idaho: If you can't make friends with conservatives, you won't have many friends.

And as my oldest friends can tell you, the truth is that I used to be fairly conservative myself. I come from a working-class family -- my mother's side of the family was in road construction, and my dad's was mostly a farming family, though his father actually was an auto mechanic.

Working-class values, and my belief in blue-collar virtues -- like integrity, decency, hard work, honesty, common sense, and fair play -- all were quite deeply ingrained. When I was younger, I really believed that conservatism best embodied those values.
...
I have heard all kinds of anecdotes about interpersonal alienation over Bush and his handling of the "war on terror." Some of these involve family members, others longtime friendships. One can only imagine what scenes will erupt from the coming Thanksgiving and holiday seasons too. For myself, it is not profound, but noticeable: invitations to traditional camping and fishing trips not issued; letters ignored; cold and brusque treatment when we do get together. A decided lack of communication and a clear sense of rejection.

And it's too plain why: I and my fellow "Saddam-loving" liberals are all traitors. They know, because Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter and everyone else out there has told them so. Indeed, these right-wing "transmitters" have been pounding it into their heads for years now, and it's reaching fruition.

I don't really blame my friends for this, though of course I deeply resent their willingness to adopt such beliefs. It is a very hurtful thing, and it may take years to recover, if at all. But I'm trying to be patient, knowing that eventually they will come around.

tangentally

Date: 2004-08-08 08:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
Working-class values, and my belief in blue-collar virtues -- like integrity, decency, hard work, honesty, common sense, and fair play

Why are these blue-collar values? Or why are these blue-collar values only? I'm not blue collar, and my family isn't (although my father's father was a shoemaker), but those were the ideals I was raised with, and I would say most of the peers I grew up with were as well (and some of them really have been in that mythical top 2% of earners).

I work hard, and I'm lucky to have the opportunity to. I hate the rhetoric that says that's impossible because I sit at a desk (or perform), or have a college degree, or live in NYC, or whatever it is this week.

I get the point, and it's good, illuminating writing.

I just get sick and tired of being told I don't have values or don't have shared values.

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Date: 2004-08-08 09:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stephl.livejournal.com
I read this in my FriendsFriends entries, and it really moved me to comment.

I live in Ohio, and because it's a critical swing state, this election is making me more and more frantic as November draws closer. My part of Ohio is probably the most conservative part of the state, which is maddening to me. I see far more Kerry/Edwards yard signs than I ever would have expected, which gives me some small hope, but, ultimately yard signs don't translate to actual votes.

I have friends who voted for Bush in 2000, and will most certainly vote for him again this year. I have family who consider voting "against" Bush to be a portent of the apocalypse. (Family members who, when they found out I saw Fahrenheit 9-11, reacted as if I saw a snuff film.)

When they voted for Bush in 2000, it irked me, but I was sure he couldn't win. Four years later, I feel, like you described, betrayed by the people I know who still plan to vote for him again. And I'm also very confused, because it's as if we've lived the past 4 years in 2 completely different United States. I honestly don't understand how they can look at the past 4 years and think that 4 more years of the same could be anything but destructive.

So I *do* feel, when it comes right down to it, threatened and unsafe because of their vote. Not just because of my gender or sexuality, but because I'm an American, damn it, and the current administration is eroding everyone's rights, and most certainly will continue to do so if given the chance.

Date: 2004-08-08 10:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] graene.livejournal.com
Thank you once again, for helping distill my confusion into words of clarity, so I can more easily speak out to my acquaintence seem not to get this.

Great post.

Date: 2004-08-08 10:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-meta.livejournal.com

Certainly, I know that many of my friends face the constantly annoying choice as to whether to vote on money or social issues.

I don't think I know anyone rich enough to be able to argue that they're voting for Bush out of economic self-interest.

As far as I'm concerned, you don't vote for an administration that officially condones torture. That's an absolute line you do not cross. If I'm gonna lose friends for taking that stand, so be it.

Date: 2004-08-08 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] z111.livejournal.com
Found a link to your post elsewhere and just wanted to say thank you. I hope you don't make it friends only.

Date: 2004-08-08 03:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
Thank you.

I'm hoping not to have to, but I am getting some comments from suspended users, and I've had some LJ harassment problems in the past, so my goal is to leave this public, but that's entirely dependent on how fraught things get.

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Date: 2004-08-08 10:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bellacrow.livejournal.com
thanks for writing this, it speaks so strongly to the disconnect I have with some male friends who think Bush is wonderful and cant see why anybody wouldnt vote for him. I've linked to your post as well.

Date: 2004-08-08 11:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snowwy.livejournal.com
I'm stunned. I can't even come up with sufficiently fulsome praise.
Forgive the "me, too" post, but I felt the need to add my voice to the chorus thanking you for writing this.

Date: 2004-08-09 05:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] criedwyddwen.livejournal.com
I found you through a link on a friend's LJ. Thank you for this post. As so many others have already said, you've put into words something that's been niggling at me for a few months.

I'm a liberal in conservative's clothing. What I mean is, my views on civil liberties are quite liberal, I believe people have a right to make their own choices for their lives as long as it doesn't infringe on another person's right to do so. However, I personally tend to live my life pretty conservatively.

I suppose it has to do with where I've moved, but it seems like lately I come in contact with more ultra-conservatives than I ever have in the past.

It's been bothering me, and I couldn't figure out why. Your post and the comments underneath have pointed out that it bothers me because they assume I have the same beliefs as they do. Due to various circumstances, I've kept my mouth shut because the network I've formed is important. However, I can't held but feel that I've cut off a chunk of my soul in doing so.

As I write this I wonder if what I'm doing is just as damaging as those people who want to pass constitutional ammendments based on Christian morality. If no one speaks out against the woman who hands out flyers to support an ammendment to "put into the constitution what God already says is right", then how are we to ensure that our rights remain intact? (yes, a woman at a farmer's market literally said that quote to me, and no, I didn't debate her)

If I deny a part of myself simply to be friends with people, then are they truly friends?

And if I keep my mouth shut as the conservatives push an agenda that "conservatism=patriotism" and "christianity=patriotism", do I have the right to bitch in private that my rights are being eroded?

Thank you again for your post & the discussion it prompted, it's given me a lot to think about and some decisions to make.

Date: 2004-08-09 06:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
I think speaking up in the face to face world is really hard, and I admire you for considering it.

Being a New Yorker, I deal with a lot less crap on some levels, but am also pretty well trained not to get into it with the people I deal with casually.

That said in the last year, I've started saying shit when my cab driver is racist or someone I work with says something anti-gay. What's shocked me is how hard it is to speak up, and how affronted people generally are, no matter how politely I do it (generally I don't try to change people's beliefs, just tell them I'm offended and thnk the context is inappropriate for what I consider to be bigoted remarks), when I do it.

But I also have to say, it feels really good -- not in any sort of self righteous way -- but because it just feels right.

Date: 2004-08-09 08:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sultansfavorite.livejournal.com
SALUD! I hope you don't mind if I friend you 'cos we are simpatico on this. Great post!!

Date: 2004-08-09 10:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
Thanks and welcome!

Date: 2004-08-09 09:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] schpahky.livejournal.com
I am nodding at so many of your points. One of my coworkers admitted she is voting for Bush on the grounds of "better the known devil" and we work in the most Democratic office ever. I was surprised; I smelled fear. Especially since she said she might not vote at all, which horrified me more. I mean, why not vote? Why just capitulate? It's caused me to reconsider a lot of assumptions I had about why I am voting the way I am voting. So, thank you for spelling your reasons out so clearly.

Also, if you are not reading The New Yorker lately, you might want to give it a whirr. They not only made their own point about the importance of rhetoric (after you did), they just came out and openly called Bush the worst president, hands down, since Nixon. Then they outlined why. The New Yorker has its own narrow upscale demographic (besides starving English majors) but I am relieved to be seeing some openness and desperation in some form of mainstream media.

Also, my pronoun agreement in the previous paragraph sucks.

Date: 2004-08-09 10:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
This is lame, but my main objection to the New Yorker, is their crappy type face and layout. I find it so off-putting.

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From: [identity profile] schpahky.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-08-09 10:32 am (UTC) - Expand

*nods* Indeed.

Date: 2004-08-09 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chi-zero.livejournal.com
Bella-

Thank you for sharing some of your heart.

It is amazing how people will justify being vicious bullies as righteousness. You’re not the only one who has suffered such slings and arrows, though you’ve suffered more than most I know of. I have not, largely because the dolts of the world seem to be unnerved by my presence. What does it say about a so-called “civilized” society when the best way to be free from rape and brutality is to be seen as physically intimidating? Nothing good, probably.

I have spent the last four years hoping that Prez Shrub would end up doing so much that he's actually be condemned by history... that his stances would become so publicly proven to be destructive that it would be decades before anyone would dare to try this crap again.

Alas, we are surrounded by frightened sheep, and the media has (in my opinion) spent decades stoking fear to sell everything from candidates to deodorant. I don't know about other countries, but in the USA, it seems like most people are afraid, and take great offense if you are not!

I will resist the urge to go on a diatribe against government, so as to avoid splashing your journal with a series of rants. Suffice it to say that Anarchism is closer to being a religion for me than it is to a political agenda.

Nonetheless, I vote. When a man has a gun to your head, even a gun-hating pacifist will still try to convince him not to pull the trigger.

Shrub has not even been impeached for his crimes. It is amazing, truly amazing. And sobering.

The Republican Party has a e-mail newsletter you can subscribe to that tells you not only their slant on the news, but what to think about it and who to write to that week to make sure they know you think that. Jim Jones had a similar scam going while his church was in the US. It’s easy to subscribe to, if you want to see what they’re doing and how. I assume the Democrats have something similar; I haven’t looked.

Even if I was a Baptist I would not vote for Bush. It amazes me that anyone will.

I just hope that no one gives in to temptation and shoots him. The last thing we need is for the Dubya to be martyred like JFK *shudders*.

For your freedom,
--Coyote

Date: 2004-08-10 10:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] timiathan.livejournal.com
What upsets me about the Democratic Party now is that all we hear about are Iraq, Jobs, and VietnamVietnamVietnamVietnam. Three issues that are very low on my political totem pole.

The reason why I think Bush is Satan (which I don't, really, btw, but whatever) is because of his domestic policies -- the Christian revival, the way religious ideology is seeping into political policy everywhere you look. It's not just gay marriage or abortion or stem cell research. It's every damn thing.

This idea that a bunch of 'renegade judges' are 'hijacking the courts' is just ludicrous -- we have a system of checks and balances for a reason; it was a bunch of renegade judges that dismantled desegregation 50 years ago despite popular opinion.

Everyone on the Right cares so much about money, and one of the main things that's made our country so strong financially is scientific advancement. We've always been on the cutting edge, exporting new technologies and ideas abroad, and then buying back the same product 10 years later at a fraction of the cost. If we ignore a potentially huge advancement in medicine we'll be on the opposite side of that equation: not only will lives be lost that could have been saved, but we'll lose money! Whichever you care about, at least care about one.

Sorry, I don't mean to babble on and on in a stranger's journal, but your sentiment that the goverment doesn't want people like us around anymore -- God knows I've heard "Move to Canada!" shouted out car windows enough in the last 3 years -- it really struck a chord. Thank you for taking the time to post it; and thanks to whoever's journal linked you (I don't remember at this point).

Do you mind if I add you? Not only do you have a calm, rational voice, but I think you probably know a lot more about macro-economics than I do, and I wouldn't mind pulling up a stump.

Date: 2004-08-10 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com
Feel free (actually I've already added you back). In all fairness though, while I do know a ton of crap about macroeconomics, I don't tend to talk about it unless provoked. So other than politics and economics, mostly what you'll be seeing here is stuff about my acting career, stuff about Australia and stuff about whatever my current thing of the moment is (which seems to be horses).

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] timiathan.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-08-10 12:19 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-08-10 12:42 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] timiathan.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-08-10 01:04 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-08-10 03:00 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] timiathan.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-08-10 06:39 pm (UTC) - Expand

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From: [identity profile] rm.livejournal.com - Date: 2004-08-11 05:36 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2004-08-11 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raaven.livejournal.com
What I'm realizing though is that when it's people I know face to face, I feel betrayed and threatened on a nearly illogically visceral level.

I cannot tell you how much this sentence resonates for me. I've spent an inordinate amount of time lately, wondering who among my aquaintances would push me into a boxcar for my differentness.

And wondering if they'll get the chance.

Thank you for writing this so clearly.

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