linkies

[rm]

So yesterday I felt awful because I felt ill from all the physical work of the last few days. But after a three hour nap yesterday and six hours of sleep I feel human again. Now the muscle pain kicks in. If I can just keep up physical activity as this winds down (there's still the unpacking), I'm going to be buff this summer. Of course, I always talk about this, carry on about it for a while and then get over it. A lot of it comes from how I like to work out. I hate to jog. Gyms annoys me. Yoga just doesn't speak to me (despite my beating my head against it, even at NIDA), etc etc. I just like to randomly move around to music. Not in an aerobics way. I guess I should just do that in my house... since I don't really go clubbing anymore, and this is better than that anyway. Sigh, anyway.

today we have linkies.

Not that interested in the wedding, and don't generally think the princelings are terribly hot, but this photo is ferocious. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/04/09/international/boys.jpg

Meanwhile, so much for the new homosociality
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/10/fashion/10date.html?8hpib
Dinner with a friend has not always been so fraught. Before women were considered men's equals, some gender historians say, men routinely confided in and sought advice from one another in ways they did not do with women, even their wives. Then, these scholars say, two things changed during the last century: an increased public awareness of homosexuality created a stigma around male intimacy, and at the same time women began encroaching on traditionally male spheres, causing men to become more defensive about notions of masculinity

In the wake of Lord of the Rings, can someone please tell me why guys still can't deal with, well, just socializing without terror and overt declarations of manhood? And sure I know some who do. But really. Le sigh. Tip for straight guys who may be reading this who may feel uncomfortable socializing with their male friends one on one without the aid of sports or business -- this is why I, and a lot of other women I know, hate you. And it's why we don't understand you. And it's why we don't trust you. Because it tells us you don't know how to be friends with anyone, and at a certain age, we don't want to date anyone we can't be friends with. The socialization patterns of women are not a gaggle of us giggling in the bathroom, despite what you've heard. Sometimes it happens, especially amongst younger women, but the bulk of our social interactions less resemble that, or even Sex in the City, so much as doing things we really enjoy with another female friend who really enjoys them. And no, it's not because women are somehow more prone to being bi (there's a seperate divergence here about girls kissing for the sole purpose of impressing boys at bars, but that's a problem waaaay too screwy for this hour of the morning), it's because we're less afraid of losing. Which in the end is why we're powerful. And ultimately, is why so many of you hate us. So I guess we're even. But it's _fucked_.

All men, however, agree that one rule of guy-meets-guy time is inviolable: if a woman enters the picture, a man can drop his buddies, last minute, no questions asked.

Also, dudes. To a woman, this lacks honour. Completely. We catch you doing this for us or someone else, and it says you're disrespectful and willing to blow off established connections for transient pleasures. We won't be impressed, and we won't trust you. We _may_ screw you, but in that case, it's eaither because all we want is a one night stand and we don't care if you're a cad, or it's because we're still immature in how we conduct our friendships and relationships.

Comments

[delchi.livejournal.com]

All men, however, agree that one rule of guy-meets-guy time is inviolable: if a woman enters the picture, a man can drop his buddies, last minute, no questions asked.

Also, dudes. To a woman, this lacks honour. Completely. We catch you doing this for us or someone else, and it says you're disrespectful and willing to blow off established connections for transient pleasures. We won't be impressed, and we won't trust you. We _may_ screw you, but in that case, it's eaither because all we want is a one night stand and we don't care if you're a cad, or it's because we're still immature in how we conduct our friendships and relationships.

While I can agree with this, I think it's variable depending on the situation. Out here in the badlands, there are women who expect that exact behavior. The theory is that if they are unable to pull guy away from guy friends and " manly things " that they are lacking in some quality and somehow less.

From a personal point of view, I've never had male friends who were bound to the sports/business thing. Granted there were other things to take their place ( tech talk for example ) but I never saw it as bad as I have in others arenas.

A good example is the shuttle bus from my house to the office. On the ride back every night ( it's about 45-60 minutes ) there are three guys who sit in the back of the bus and loudly discuss, in this order , sports, their wives, and female television stars. It starts out with how about (team), then the inevitable 'your team sucks' jokes, then 'I have to go do something with the wife this weekend' , and after a pause 'how about that samantha from bewitched? I'd do her' ( actual quote ). It repeats every day at 6 pm without fail.

tell me why guys still can't deal with, well, just socializing without terror and overt declarations of manhood?

I still believe that we ( as males ) are preprogrammed socially to do that from the earliest of age, and unless otherwise diverted from that path will continue until we are comparing mag wheels on our wheelchairs. It's an evolution - who has the bigget dumptruck in the sandbox, who has the best bike, and who has the best stock portfolio and so on.

I think that changing this will require either breaking social norms at an early age, or re-education circa 18-19 by someone with common sense to share.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I still believe that we ( as males ) are preprogrammed socially to do that from the earliest of age

And I as a woman am programmed from the earliest age to hate myself. I choose not to. You all can get over it. It's not that hard.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

I completey agree. I like to think that in some ways I have managed to get past most of these things. Sometimes I still catch myself saying/doing stupid things and say " Hey, where did THAT come from? ".

Still, I see people every day that have not, choose not to, or probably never will.