(no subject)

[rm]

Livejournal, among other things, raises a lot of issues, for many of us I think, about "friendship" and "fans". It's the nature of the whole, "On the Internet, Anyone Can Be a Celebrity, Well, Kind Of" thing that is further complicated by the irritatingly named "friends" lists. For me, wanting to achieve the type of success that conveys fame, there's an additional level of peculiarity in matter, which has to do mainly with wondering if there's a balance between Not Being an Asshole and "If you wanna be a star, you better behave like one."

People toss the word fan around casually. We say things like "I'm your number one fan!" to cheer our friends, and throw support towards people we know more casually through this and other mediums. All of which makes me wonder what the criteria are for certain things, and how those things interact.

That is to say -- at what point do I know any of you?
At what point are you a friend?
What is a fan?
And if you're a fan can you ever be my friend?
And if you're my friend, do you have any business being a fan?
Is fan a word used too casually or too seriously?
How to role-models and aspiration fit into the fannish equation?
And where is media and image-making going in a world where everyone isn't famous for fifteen minutes, but everyone is famous in the eyes of fifteen people?

I don't bloody know. And I don't know that knowing the answers (presuming there are clear cut ones) would solve the non-specific dilemma I find in all this.

When people tell me they are my fan (just to be clear, this is yet to be another more than the occassional Internet occurance or related to my writing), I often respond with an incredulous "Why?" which makes me sound like an asshole. It is, among other things, not my business and can seem like and be fishing for compliments, which is bad. On the other hand, it is helpful to know what it is that I do that matters to people, so I can look at those things more closely. I remain uncomfortable saying merely "Thank you" because while probably appropriately gracious creates a power dynamic of distance, where notations of worth are conducted in only one direction. Similarly, the impulse to respond to someone liking or approving of their perception of some facet of myself, with an invitation to friendship ranges from a good idea to a bad idea to just plain stupid.

Having written this now, it occurs to me that one of the most egregious problems with the notion of fans, in any sense of the word is that our cultural set up for it forces both sides of the equation to be necessarily estranged from each other and unhappy, even as both provide so much to the other.

Comments

For Myself

[keith418.livejournal.com]

I have followed your LJ for awhile now and even went back and read sections of it from before I started. I think of myself as a fan, in a sense, because I am rooting for you. I want you to win. I feel bad when you have problems and I am happy when you do well. I am interested in what you have to say. I do not think I know you very well at all, but to the extent that I do, I appreciate you and your take on things.

I have a similar weird feeling sometimes when I hear that people have been reading my LJ when I didn't expect that they would care at all. I am bewildered as to all the fuss it has stirred up and that people seem so leery of it and me –or so interested and enthusiatic. I guess it is part of the power of language and thinking.

According to my standards, you are a successful LJer because you have attracted a large and intelligent fan base. They may never be friends, but is what they are so bad?

Re: For Myself

[rm.livejournal.com]

I'm down with them not being friends and instead being acquaintances or whatever. That's fine -- there are definitely LJ people I care about who I barely know and it will always be that way and it's _fine_.

It's the extension of the culture of celebrity into parts of life that don't require it, that weirds me out, and it's the sort of thing LJ seems to facillitate.

And thank you for rooting for me. That is always seriously, deeply appreciated.

Public Persona

[keith418.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite writers revealed some very horrible personal details in his auto-bio. I think this was very brave, but obviously he had the strength to not worry about it. What kind of inner strength does it take to live your life in a public way? What is demanded of you and what does that demand do to you? Do you use it to grow? Or does it weaken and destroy you?

What if you succeed and become a well known actress? What stress will that create? Will the stress build you up as you respond to it or tear you down?

Re: Public Persona

[rm.livejournal.com]

I know that two of the big stressors will likely be:

1. My family, my relationship with them and them getting to know me not necessarily accurately (but perhaps more accurately than they want) through a public filter.

and

2. I love people and attention, but it also exhausts me to the point that I really can't stand to be around people sometimes -- the quick cycling of my reclusive spells, and my sharpness when I can't hide out from the world really worries me. It's the sort of thing I'm trying to build my tolerance to, but it's really hard.

I'm sure there's all sorts of shit I can't anticipate, but those two are givens to me.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

Ok for my subway token ...

A fan is a person who knows you primarilly from your public works. That being performances, recordings, etc..etc.. If you buy the CD, see the play, buy the book, and like it - you are a fan. Fans get their books signed, write " I love your work " letters , and go see you when you read at B&N.

A friend is someone who knows you personally, either before or during your public life. These are people hwo know you becasue they are a part of your personal life more so than your public life. They are the ones you have steak frites with at 2 am, have coffee with when they are in town, go to a play/opera/movie with. The ones who come over to your house for dinner with other friends, to celebrate the fact that you jsut finished your latest book - and they are tehre to celebrate you not being locked in the den hunched over the word processor - not the new book. A friend is the one you call at 4 am when you are out of coffe and have 5 more chapters to write and you want to bitch because its too hot to go out and get more.

Can a fan convert to a friend? If you let them. If you want them to. If they show qualities that indicate to you that they would make a good friend.

Can a friend convert into a fan? Absolutely. When they loose sight of who you are privately for who you are publically.

As for the LJ - Having two is a good idea. One for " fans " and one for friends. Give the fan one a catchy name, and keep the friend one private.

Jsut IMHO.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

Ps : while I also agree with 'anyone can be a celeberity on the internet' ( Shit, look at me ) , it's a no brainer that you will be the real thing. It's not bravado or lackluster bar room confidence. Seeing the path you are on, and watching you progress, it's obvious.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Bless your enthusiasm, but you've never seen me perform in anything, anywhere, ever.

Heh.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

This is true, however I have seen the claptrap that is out there now, and I know you are better than that.

Ok , call it a wild hunch.

perfect

[theotoky.livejournal.com]

This is precisely what I wanted to say. But you said it better. So I'll just say "wut he sed"!

[lllvis.livejournal.com]

a lot of good points have already been made.

In the case of my relationship with Juliet, I started out as a fan first, and quickly became a friend. As that friend I am of course behind whatever endeavor she is working on and hope for nothing but success.

I would do so for any of my friends, either here, at work, or whereever they come from.

Where LJ is concerned...at some point in time just about everyone on my list has shared something that puts us beyond the definition of just a 'fan' (as have I shared some things with my 'friends' here).

I know I have had this kick lately where the term 'friend' either just isn't enough or it seems too much, yet it seems almost insulting to refer to people as 'aquaintances' or such, especially when at some point or another they have taken you (or you have taken them) into some sort of confidence.

Turning again back to Juliet and her celebrity personae, mixing with 'fans' and her efforts to keep most from becoming friends, they do almost seem at odds. Part of what helped her in that regard were a few very clear boundaries regarding her private life and their inability to intermingle with it. I called that 'efforts' but it really wasn't an effort, it was just where the boundaries were, and only one person decided who was cross those boundaries. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. C'est la vie.

well, to be totally honest...

[mcsquare.livejournal.com]

But not to be an asshole or anything, I don't really consider you a friend. Not by a long shot. It's nothing personal, I just don't know you well enough. I read your entries, some more thoroughly than others, I'll admit.

Mainly I added you because I found your writing to be interesting and thought you had some good insights on certain subjects. But I wouldn't consider myself a *fan*, either. That's just putting it into overly dramatic terms for my tastes. Also, I think that the word "fan" really does apply to celebrities, and I don't really consider you a celebrity. I don't take internet celebrity seriously, to be honest.

I have a feeling this is coming off much nastier than I really intended, but I'm not always the greatest at expressing exactly what I want to say. I'm just a person who reads your journal because I think it's interesting. It's nothing more simple or complicated than that.

Re: well, to be totally honest...

[rm.livejournal.com]

Well, I certainly didn't mean to imply there was a huge influx of people seeing me as one or the other, and the presumption that I did was exactly what I was wary of in writing this. But I've had a few run-ins with the problem lately and I wanted to write about it.

I think your position is the perfectly normal and rational one, truth be told, and my only concern that this was being read as "you're all my fans!" that's not what this rant is about. This rant is about just one of the ways this particular medium can distort interactions.

In other words, it's all good.

[deslea.livejournal.com]

Thank you for posting this. I haven't really got any insight on this one, but it's a balance I walk, as well (especially given my high profile in certain places)...you've kind of put some words to that nagging sense I have at times. Thanks.

[tsarina.livejournal.com]

I don't think I can possibly fit my brain around this one right now. God only knows what square I'm supposed to be on at this point, and crikey, I think I've forgotten how to play chess...

That said, can I help you answer your fan mail? Come on, you know it would be fun. Besides, as ninja butler that's probably one of my duties.

[laughingirl.livejournal.com]

It's interesting... I have a couple of friends who are singers. I was definitely friends with them first (from college) and then experienced their singing and became a very enthusiastic fan. But, it's hard for me to separate how much of my "fan-ness" is really about their work and how much is me caring about them and knowing what's behind the work and wanting to support them.

I'm not sure if I could become friends with someone being a fan *first*... I'm generally so in awe of talents that I don't have (singing, acting, dancing) that I kind of can't see the performer as a potential friend if I didn't know them first... I wouldn't know what to say in a social setting if I just ran into them and I'd feel at a strange advantage in any random conversation because I'd feel like I already knew more about them than they know about me.

LiveJournal makes all of that even more confusing! I have a bunch of people on my list (you included) who I've added because I met them and have really enjoyed getting to know them a bit more through the words here. But who are my friends? And what are just words on the page? A lot of the people on my list are somewhere between acquaintances (surely I know the people here "better" than someone I've met at a party or two and see a couple times a year) and true "friends"... and exploring that whole spectrum is pretty interesting.

I know from my friends and many, many other sources how difficult it is to succeed at something creative, so, I generally support anyone I know who is attempting that... whether it's buying books, going to shows or stocking up on CDs. Sometimes I turn into a fan... sometimes I don't... but, to me, it's all part of being a friend, even a casual friend.

Wow... sorry for rambling on so! :)

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

Hmm.
I was using that LJ function thingla that tracks who has friended/unfriended you and when.
Realized it refers to friends as fans.
That kinda took me aback.

"Fan", I think, has an unfair connection to "obsession" and "stalker". It's become a negative, in too many circles. Unnecessarily so.
"Friend" is too often easily bandied about - I have many acquaintances, and few friends.

At some point last year, someone created a "fan of Reive" icon that I thought was funny and supportive, and I put it on my user page for a while. I didn't think of it as being a negative until much later - and then, because it felt like the right thing to do, I took it down.

That said, I don't consider myself a fan of yours. As much as I respect you, and clap wildly for your successes and ventures on this side of the computer screen, I've never...the word "fan" doesn't feel accurate.

Acquaintance, sure.
Hero-of-the-moment, more than once. :)

All that babble aside: yeah. I think "fan" also hints at only knowing someone's public face, and one's interpretation of that face.

I've had sporadic fans of my writing.
That makes sense to me - uncomfortable as it is.
I would be truly shocked if anyone reading my LJ was to say, "I'm your fan." - perhaps because I think one sees more of who I truly am in those entries than in my other writings.

Similarly, the impulse to respond to someone liking or approving of their perception of some facet of myself, with an invitation to friendship ranges from a good idea to a bad idea to just plain stupid.
Agreed.
Absolutely.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I remember that icon and I believe it was funny at the time because the thing with that dude harassing me and yelling at people for being my fans. It was an appropriate fuck you at the time that lost its meaning when that drama ended. So it's cool.

[mallorys-camera.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what label would apply to me -- "fan," "friend," beachcomber who picks up the bottle with the message and reads it.

But I like yr writing and I enjoy yr spirit. Being completely ignorant of Livejournal politix when I first stumbled across yr rieve journal, I did not add you to a friends list. I bookmarked you. However with yr permission, I'd like to add you now.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Sure, feel free.