HP: good, bad and buh?
Nov. 18th, 2005 07:08 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rmBelow the cut tags are my list of HP observations. While there's more negative and positive, let me just say I had the most fun at this film of any of them and felt that the film was incredibly true to the warm spirit of the books in the way that the first three weren't. Unfortunately, there are other emotional tones in Book 4 that they did less well with, so for you nitpicky people:
Things that were bad or aggravating:
- Why was Draco in Muggle clothes at the World Cup? I can totally accept that wizards to wear their version of suits (We've seen them on background actors), but the cuts and fabrics have to be evocative of the wizarding world. These clothese were Muggle. He was with his father, in the Minister's fucking box. Now, there are many reasons he might do this, from calculation to annoying rebellion, and don't get me wrong Tom Felton looked damn fine in that suit, but I felt like no one thought about any of this.
- This was actually a general peeve of mine. It's a problem in the books that JKR covers well that becomes a glaring reality in the movies -- wizarding culture is utterly not developed, so the second anything happens outside of Hogwarts (which does have a decently developed culture), it becomes an inconsistent mess.
- Why were Beauxbatons and Durmstrang made single sex schools? It doesn't seem like a big deal, until you look at it carefully, and then it's the wizarding culture problem and just stupid besides. Is the German school for witches crappy? the French school for boys? Fuck the HP universe for not having tough athletic women (Fleur cried too much, didn't seem capable or worthy of being a champion -- and this was a problem in the books that got much worse in the movie). Again, there are ways to make this work, but why am I doing the work and not the filmmakers?
- We never see Snape's Mark. This doesn't matter plotwise, and there is no ambiguity given to his Death Eater past, but that Snape is Marked matters and speaks to nearly everything about his character including the designers' costume choices. Wait, did you not show us this because those sleeves won't roll up? Hahahah, that's sort of funny.
- Relatedly, we lose stuff that is critical to the next films when we lose Voldemort talking about those currently missing from the circle, including the one who has betrayed him that will die. And then we don't get Albus's "Severus, you know what I must ask you to do." -- hell put it after the credits if you want a "happy" "ending", but for fucks sake, that is the _moment_ where the books pivot, where we realize we are living in dark times as opposed to merely amongst senseless tradgedy, where we realize Dumbledore is not all sweetness and light, where we understand that Snape has his reasons and burdens, where we understand this isn't wizards sloppily playing at "war" but a true battle, with many terrible consequences to come. HOW CAN YOU LEAVE THIS OUT?
- Someone please remind the filmmakers that the books are about 10 years behind real-life. That means, dress the kids in classic clothes when wearing Muggle fashions. Not 2005 fads (hello, Hermione's ugly Yule Ball dress).
- Was the band at the Yule Ball supposed to suck? Because if so it was brilliantly funny, and I really dug it. If that was accidentally, I cringe.
Things that were lovely:
- Everything about Neville was just gorgeously and touchingly and sweetly handled. I bow in awe.
- The twins were so funny and real. In fact the chaos of kids, the friendships, the utter love surrounding the ever extending Weasley clan -- I finally got it, bought it and loved it. The movie included us in these intimacies in a way none of the others have even tried to.
- Cedric. Everything. Utter perfection.
- Quidditch World Cup -- spectacular in every way.
- Dumbeldore's reaction to Harry being in the tournament. Michael Gambon finally makes Dumbledore his own and does so spectacularly.
- The Wizengamut looks exactly like I thought it would.
- Voldemort was as creepy and as compelling as I expected him to be. I hadn't dared hope. You saw that he was insane, but you could also see where he had once been charismatic and attractive.
- This film framed shots very differently from the others, and worried about the background far more, which will be what drives me to see it again. You see the character we know and love doing ordinary things, often with people we don't recognize as Major characters and not be the center of attention; it makes things much richer, and is often very funny. Draco and Snape get the most benefit of this.
- The entrance of the Durmstrang kids.
- The Mark tattoo was far more elegant than I had thought it would be and I was really glad, as I was able to believe in these people choosing to wear such a thing. Symbols matter in this world, and it couldn't have been cheesy. Here, they do get an effort at wizarding culture right.
- Lucius, in the DE circle at the end, when Voldie is dueling with Harry, keeps trying to step in. This is such a great moment, because what you hear from him is impatience and indecision. He's clearly a bad follower (Voldie has to tell him twice) and he's clearly unsure if he should kill Potter to help Voldie, or use the opportunity to take Voldie out. It's a real character moment, and that indecision will cost him later.
- When Cedric's body is brought back, the moment is great in general, but when Snape gets up, he rushes to Dumbledore's side, touches his shoulder. I thought this was great, and in fact, thought the many little things that indicate the father/son nature of their friendship were pretty lovely, although again, not sure this was the film to wedge them into (not sure it wasn't though).
Things that were buh?
- I've always felt, and I think most fannish people who like Snape, that Snape has a wicked sense of humour. No one else may be laughing, but he's really fucking amused. This time we _saw_ it. And while it warmed my heart, I thought it was really fucking odd to give us that in this film.
- Still with the Snape -- at one point he LOCKS HIMSELF IN A CLOSET.
- Still with the Snape -- the cuffing the kids on the head is really problematic for me, just because he's always been about the threat of contact, and here there is contact. What's that about (and this is also where I think we're seeing his sense of humour -- I really got a kick out of it, but what the fuck to do with it, I don't know!)
- Did the Draco-as-ferret wind up down someone's _pants_ in the book? I can't remember.
- Madame Maxine really really needed to not nipple a crumb from Hagrid's beard, thanks.
- Snape's history with Karkaroff is specifically murky in the book. In the film, it's non-specifically murky. Like all of Hogwarts is in a good mood because of the excitement of the tournament and everyone flirting with everyone else and Snape has a spring in his step because.... of Karkaroff? WTF?
- Barty Crouch's tongue.
- Moaning Myrtle making a pass at Harry.
- Rita Skeeter wanting a Harry/Krum sandwich. I mean what is up with her making passes at these boys?!?!?!
- Did my entire group of friends mis-see this or was Cedric really lounging about with his head in a boy's lap at one point?
Things that were bad or aggravating:
- Why was Draco in Muggle clothes at the World Cup? I can totally accept that wizards to wear their version of suits (We've seen them on background actors), but the cuts and fabrics have to be evocative of the wizarding world. These clothese were Muggle. He was with his father, in the Minister's fucking box. Now, there are many reasons he might do this, from calculation to annoying rebellion, and don't get me wrong Tom Felton looked damn fine in that suit, but I felt like no one thought about any of this.
- This was actually a general peeve of mine. It's a problem in the books that JKR covers well that becomes a glaring reality in the movies -- wizarding culture is utterly not developed, so the second anything happens outside of Hogwarts (which does have a decently developed culture), it becomes an inconsistent mess.
- Why were Beauxbatons and Durmstrang made single sex schools? It doesn't seem like a big deal, until you look at it carefully, and then it's the wizarding culture problem and just stupid besides. Is the German school for witches crappy? the French school for boys? Fuck the HP universe for not having tough athletic women (Fleur cried too much, didn't seem capable or worthy of being a champion -- and this was a problem in the books that got much worse in the movie). Again, there are ways to make this work, but why am I doing the work and not the filmmakers?
- We never see Snape's Mark. This doesn't matter plotwise, and there is no ambiguity given to his Death Eater past, but that Snape is Marked matters and speaks to nearly everything about his character including the designers' costume choices. Wait, did you not show us this because those sleeves won't roll up? Hahahah, that's sort of funny.
- Relatedly, we lose stuff that is critical to the next films when we lose Voldemort talking about those currently missing from the circle, including the one who has betrayed him that will die. And then we don't get Albus's "Severus, you know what I must ask you to do." -- hell put it after the credits if you want a "happy" "ending", but for fucks sake, that is the _moment_ where the books pivot, where we realize we are living in dark times as opposed to merely amongst senseless tradgedy, where we realize Dumbledore is not all sweetness and light, where we understand that Snape has his reasons and burdens, where we understand this isn't wizards sloppily playing at "war" but a true battle, with many terrible consequences to come. HOW CAN YOU LEAVE THIS OUT?
- Someone please remind the filmmakers that the books are about 10 years behind real-life. That means, dress the kids in classic clothes when wearing Muggle fashions. Not 2005 fads (hello, Hermione's ugly Yule Ball dress).
- Was the band at the Yule Ball supposed to suck? Because if so it was brilliantly funny, and I really dug it. If that was accidentally, I cringe.
Things that were lovely:
- Everything about Neville was just gorgeously and touchingly and sweetly handled. I bow in awe.
- The twins were so funny and real. In fact the chaos of kids, the friendships, the utter love surrounding the ever extending Weasley clan -- I finally got it, bought it and loved it. The movie included us in these intimacies in a way none of the others have even tried to.
- Cedric. Everything. Utter perfection.
- Quidditch World Cup -- spectacular in every way.
- Dumbeldore's reaction to Harry being in the tournament. Michael Gambon finally makes Dumbledore his own and does so spectacularly.
- The Wizengamut looks exactly like I thought it would.
- Voldemort was as creepy and as compelling as I expected him to be. I hadn't dared hope. You saw that he was insane, but you could also see where he had once been charismatic and attractive.
- This film framed shots very differently from the others, and worried about the background far more, which will be what drives me to see it again. You see the character we know and love doing ordinary things, often with people we don't recognize as Major characters and not be the center of attention; it makes things much richer, and is often very funny. Draco and Snape get the most benefit of this.
- The entrance of the Durmstrang kids.
- The Mark tattoo was far more elegant than I had thought it would be and I was really glad, as I was able to believe in these people choosing to wear such a thing. Symbols matter in this world, and it couldn't have been cheesy. Here, they do get an effort at wizarding culture right.
- Lucius, in the DE circle at the end, when Voldie is dueling with Harry, keeps trying to step in. This is such a great moment, because what you hear from him is impatience and indecision. He's clearly a bad follower (Voldie has to tell him twice) and he's clearly unsure if he should kill Potter to help Voldie, or use the opportunity to take Voldie out. It's a real character moment, and that indecision will cost him later.
- When Cedric's body is brought back, the moment is great in general, but when Snape gets up, he rushes to Dumbledore's side, touches his shoulder. I thought this was great, and in fact, thought the many little things that indicate the father/son nature of their friendship were pretty lovely, although again, not sure this was the film to wedge them into (not sure it wasn't though).
Things that were buh?
- I've always felt, and I think most fannish people who like Snape, that Snape has a wicked sense of humour. No one else may be laughing, but he's really fucking amused. This time we _saw_ it. And while it warmed my heart, I thought it was really fucking odd to give us that in this film.
- Still with the Snape -- at one point he LOCKS HIMSELF IN A CLOSET.
- Still with the Snape -- the cuffing the kids on the head is really problematic for me, just because he's always been about the threat of contact, and here there is contact. What's that about (and this is also where I think we're seeing his sense of humour -- I really got a kick out of it, but what the fuck to do with it, I don't know!)
- Did the Draco-as-ferret wind up down someone's _pants_ in the book? I can't remember.
- Madame Maxine really really needed to not nipple a crumb from Hagrid's beard, thanks.
- Snape's history with Karkaroff is specifically murky in the book. In the film, it's non-specifically murky. Like all of Hogwarts is in a good mood because of the excitement of the tournament and everyone flirting with everyone else and Snape has a spring in his step because.... of Karkaroff? WTF?
- Barty Crouch's tongue.
- Moaning Myrtle making a pass at Harry.
- Rita Skeeter wanting a Harry/Krum sandwich. I mean what is up with her making passes at these boys?!?!?!
- Did my entire group of friends mis-see this or was Cedric really lounging about with his head in a boy's lap at one point?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
RE: Lucius and the circle of Death Eaters
Date: 2005-11-19 01:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-19 02:30 am (UTC)An ongoing prob with the books is that almost nothing JK does is well-developed. Not Hogwarts, not the characters, not the wizarding world itself. Her character development is practically Heinleinian: it's over simplified, as though she were writing for VERY young children.
Fleur cried too much, didn't seem capable or worthy of being a champion -- and this was a problem in the books that got much worse in the movie
This is Englishness: it is the English stereotype of a French girl. English bigotry rears its head. The Patels are stereotypes too.
Someone please remind the filmmakers that the books are about 10 years behind real-life.
According to whom? I've never gotten that idea from the books. I actually liked Hermione's dress.
Regardless, the movie was made in 2005, and it's standard to make movies "present", unless one is making a period piece. But I really don't think the books are meant to be 10 years behind the present.
I love Neville.
The twins were so funny and real.
Funny, yeah, real, I dunno. Not very real, imo.
Dumbeldore's reaction to Harry being in the tournament. Michael Gambon finally makes Dumbledore his own and does so spectacularly.
I was disappointed in Dumbledore.
You saw that he was insane, but you could also see where he had once been charismatic and attractive.
Totally! He was very powerful and as you say, compelling.
The entrance of the Durmstrang kids.
I did not like the entrance of the Beauxbatons girls; I thought is was overly sexual. But the mispronunciation of the name of the school was again quintessentially English: they don't pronounce things correctly, especially if those things are French. But Durmstrang was cool as hell.
Lucius, in the DE circle at the end, when Voldie is dueling with Harry, keeps trying to step in. This is such a great moment, because what you hear from him is impatience and indecision. He's clearly a bad follower (Voldie has to tell him twice) and he's clearly unsure if he should kill Potter to help Voldie, or use the opportunity to take Voldie out. It's a real character moment, and that indecision will cost him later.
This was not how I saw that scene at all: V's declarations of "He's mine" seemed directed at the entire group, not merely at Lucius, and I saw no indication that Lucius wanted to end V. This seems very fandom, rather than referencing the books themselves.
I've always felt, and I think most fannish people who like Snape, that Snape has a wicked sense of humour. No one else may be laughing, but he's really fucking amused. This time we _saw_ it.
I liked the little Snape humor touches, but in general the movie had Not Enough Snape. The sleeve bit was especially funny but, I think, out of character. It as anachronistic.
Still with the Snape -- at one point he LOCKS HIMSELF IN A CLOSET.
Did we see two different films? I don't recall this at all.
Snape with the head-grabbing: still more out of character.
Madame Maxine really really needed to not nipple a crumb from Hagrid's beard, thanks.
I thought it was a bug?
Moaning Myrtle making a pass at Harry.
This was pretty creepy and imo way too lecherous.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-19 02:37 am (UTC)Thank you for the Beauxbatons/French info. While we seem to loathe the French too, we do so differently, and this went utterly over my head.
I was incredibly uncomfortable with the Moaning Myrtle thing too, and I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was squicked by it.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-19 02:45 am (UTC)About the closet thing- I've just asked the people I went with and they didn't see it either. When did yous ee him lock himself in a closet?
Myrtle grossed me out. It was once again out of character.
if we take the first book, Year 1, as happening when it was published, that's 1991/2 that puts Year 4 as 1995/6.
That's interesting- I never heard of HP until 2000. I was given to understand then that they were new. But ehh, I think that the isolation from normal pop culture makes them pretty timeless.
Am I the only one who was highly dismayed at Harry's hair? Ron's was bad enough, but oh my god, what was happening on Harry's head?
no subject
Date: 2005-11-19 03:03 am (UTC)And I should edit my cold-medicine fueled post. As to teh closet, after he has his little chat with Harry after Harry sees him talking to Karkaroff, he shuts the door of the potions storage room in his face. Damn small room, and the theater I was in, that got a lot of howls and out-loud closet commentary.
I must say though our audience was particularly out of hand.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-19 07:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-19 07:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-21 05:03 pm (UTC)1991? According to amazon.co.uk's info, the hardcover edition of HP and the Philo's Stone was "June 26, 1997"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0747532699/ref=ed_ra_of_dp/202-5835770-1494254
Factmonster backs this up, and also provides a really interesting timeline from Rowling herself.
http://www.factmonster.com/spot/harrypottertimeline.html
She apparently began writing HP in 1990, is that what you meant? The reason this piqued my interest is because I had a conversation with Kali about the Philip Pullman books, and how they were published around the same time as HP-yet received much less attention. This is also funny in light of the Christian riot against HP-considering Pullman's outright attack against organized religion. Obviously HP's overwhelming popularity made it more of a target, but still.
I am so with you on all your observations, btw. Hermione's dress was like something out of the re-make of Dune they did for the sci-fi channel a few years ago. She was DROWNING in that dress. It should be something that better offsets her coloring, and is more streamlined to allow Hermione to be the centerpiece-not that birthday layer cake nightmare.
She would've looked better in your regency dress! Now I'm off to read Decensus...!
no subject
Date: 2005-11-21 05:07 pm (UTC)Okay, I meant FOR Rowling...talks about marriages and divorces and such. I didn't know she'd remarried and had more babies.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-22 04:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-23 12:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-23 07:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-19 07:06 am (UTC)Single sex schools? OMGWTFBBQ. And why? Was Fleur not pitiful enough already? Couldn't we have at least had a nice redeeming Angelina scene?
Sleeves not rolling up = very funny.
That "critical" stuff: sounds like it might be forgivable IF and only if they use those scenes as part of a sum-up flashback for the next movie. Otherwise, oops.
I have only seen stills, but god damn, why is Hermione wearing Pansy's dress?
Snape: More Snapeage, damnit!
Maybe they gave us more humor as fanservice?
And no, he shouldn't be whacking the stuents about. Nasty British private school teachers whack kids about like that, but the really scary ones never do, and Snape should be one of those.
(goes and looks it up) Why, no, the ferret absolutely does NOT end up in anybody's pants. (I'm afraid to ask whose!) Although it's interesting to note that Moody is bashing him around for trying to attack Harry from behind, which is what you say Lucius clearly wants to do to somebody during the Harry-Voldie fight.
The entire existence of Rita Skeeter kind of annoys me, honestly. She was such a trite walking cliche that, frankly, having her be some sort of creepy pedophile actually gives her some breadth of character that she lacked. I mean, ick, but still.
I'm pretty sure Myrtle made a pass at Harry in the books, creepy as it was.
Very glad the Mark doesn't suck.
And yay, thanks for fandom commentary. I don't know when I'll get to see the movie for myself, so it's good to hear this silly stuff.
no subject
Date: 2005-11-19 07:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-19 03:14 pm (UTC)Woah.
no subject
Date: 2005-12-07 10:28 am (UTC)(You have seen the video from which it comes, right?)
no subject
Date: 2005-11-20 12:23 am (UTC)Last night's South Park had an ongoing joke about Tom Cruise, John Travolta, and R. Kelly locking themselves in a closet.
Now my evil mind is inserting Snape's name into the scenario. Augh!