(no subject)
Feb. 25th, 2008 03:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rmhttp://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/single-marry
This article is hateful and crazy. Which is a shame, as buried deep within it are so good points regarding not dating people based on their resumes and the importance of partnership and not just passion.
But it's entirely hateful.
This article is hateful and crazy. Which is a shame, as buried deep within it are so good points regarding not dating people based on their resumes and the importance of partnership and not just passion.
But it's entirely hateful.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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Date: 2008-02-25 08:42 pm (UTC)That said, my commentary on the engagement is that "his taxi light was on," to quote, of all things, Sex and the City.
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Date: 2008-02-25 08:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 09:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 09:03 pm (UTC)It made me fucking miserable and now that I'm 43 and almost half recovered from the financial and emotional damage, every time I even think about dating, my immediate gut reaction is "why would I want to do THAT? my life is peaceful now! oh, sex. Can't I get that without having to keep the man?"
That article is drivel.
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Date: 2008-02-25 09:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 09:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 08:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 09:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 09:21 pm (UTC)Oh, please! Continue to tell women how they are! Because we love it SO MUCH when people do that.
This article is turning me purple with rage and I'm only a few paragraphs in.
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Date: 2008-02-25 11:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 09:23 pm (UTC)First off, her statements about all women "really" wanting to be married and have children were disturbing--and counterproductive to professional parity for women. I am fairly certain that I am not deluding myself when I say I am not striving to be married and have children. There are women out here (like me!) with plenty of other metrics by which we judge ourselves. Like, say, career.[*] To the extent that she suggests that women's "real" urges are to have children, she places an additional hurdle to women pursuing professional success, because not only are they facing traditional workplace barriers, but also suggestions that they are "self-delusional".
The author is also assuming there are no problems on the male end in the hetero-dating world she is addressing. I knew plenty of quite successful single female attorneys who have had significant problems even dating men that the author would consider "settling material", not because *they* didn't want to, but because those men were opposed (and even stated their opposition!) to being in a long-term relationship with a woman who was more professionally successful than them. So to the extent that the author seems to be placing most of the responsibility for few "women-settling" type relationships existing, I think she is factually incorrect as to the weight of the contributing factors.
[*] This is not to say that the career-focused approach is normatively better--I'm starting to get sick of it myself--but that it is a "real" one versus a delusional one. Another example of a non-marriage/baby metric that is also not career-focused contributing to social justice. Or producing creative works. Take your pick.
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Date: 2008-02-25 09:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 09:52 pm (UTC)*checks*
And yet, I exist!
As a woman who never wanted kids
Date: 2008-02-25 09:53 pm (UTC)I dated plenty and found boys, guys and men fun. I never took them seriously until I was about 30. Not because I wanted a ring and baby. I found a man that was what he said he was. I found that refreshing and surprisingly 16 years later he is exactly what he said he was.
Clearly the writer of this article doesn't speak for me.
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Date: 2008-02-25 10:09 pm (UTC)you will do the appropriate thing and eviscerate me if i ever spout off such gibberish like this publicly,right?
she's as bad as those "rules" hags...and didn't they end up getting divorced?
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Date: 2008-02-25 10:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 10:52 pm (UTC)i remember when that book came out, and those women started doing publicity, i could tell that they were just full of bullshit..
speaking of which i LOVE how my man aka Penn Jillette slammed the rules on the P&T Bullshit show! classic!
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Date: 2008-02-25 11:33 pm (UTC)actually, she gave one to me and to my sister. in our *stockings*, which she *knows* is the things we open first. our special treats!
we gave her the look of 0.o and she was all " . . . it's funny!" and we were all " . . . hah? hah?"
Yeah.
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Date: 2008-02-26 12:49 am (UTC)It's utter toxic crap that objectivies both women and men - women as nothing but pretty, china dolls and men as nothing but brainless lust machines that have to be controled. I found it to be pornographic.
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Date: 2008-02-25 10:18 pm (UTC)Alright, then. I'll be 30 in two and a half years. I don't want children, thank you. My partner and I prefer to mother cats, dogs, amphibians, other community members, and books. And if we ever had kids, we'd adopt. Too damn many unwanted children in this world to produce more, in my opinion. I have never wanted children and doubt very much that I will regret the decision not to have them. I do not think they're my purpose in life, and I imagine many women think the same.
I get what she's saying about not being ridiculous when it comes to dating and love (i.e. so what if he yells "Bravo!" in the theatre or has halitosis?! These are real issues that real people worry about?). Holding out for the perfect person is a recipie for disaster, because s/he doesn't exist. But following what I think is the real purpose of her advice on "settling" is a recipie not just for misery, but for potential physical/emotional/sexual abuse. I mean, would she tell a thirty-three year old woman to marry a guy who calls her "stupid" "fat" and "worthless" all the time because, hey, "you won't do any better?"
Backlash against feminism, indeed.
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Date: 2008-02-25 10:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 10:40 pm (UTC)Why aren't you on AIM?!
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Date: 2008-02-25 10:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-26 03:23 am (UTC)Thankfully she came around a while later. Still... gah...
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Date: 2008-02-25 10:21 pm (UTC)I didn't get married until my late 30s and I don't feel like I settled at all. I got who I wanted and still want.
Also she doesn't allow for the fact that some people like being single even in their 40s and 50s. Different strokes and all the rest.
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Date: 2008-02-25 10:42 pm (UTC)Absolutely hateful, yes. Partnership over passion does not equal 'marry someone who literally makes your skin crawl because it's better than being alone,' as if you don't have your friends and family and coworkers if you're out of a relationship anyway. Gah.
'Sex life fades' is a valid point, I'm assuming, but emotional attraction doesn't just come from physical attraction. At ALL. Sometimes it can even be the other way around.
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Date: 2008-02-25 11:02 pm (UTC)it beats me.
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Date: 2008-02-25 11:26 pm (UTC)AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
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Date: 2008-02-25 11:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-25 11:51 pm (UTC)I can't think of anything more awful than the visions of marriage she puts forth -- and I'm approaching my mid-30s, single, and have long harbored the desire for children. by her logic, I should have stayed with my ex, who made me miserable.
fuck that; fuck that right in the *ear*. I want that spark, or I want nothing. this is the life I chose, and I'll live it as I see fit.
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Date: 2008-02-26 12:52 am (UTC)Each time, Chris would persuade her to reconsider, until finally she called it off for good, saying that she just couldn’t marry somebody she wasn’t in love with. Chris was devastated, but now that his ex-girlfriend has reached 35, he’s suddenly hopeful about their future.
“By the time she turns 37,” Chris said confidently, “she’ll come back. And I’ll bet she’ll marry me then. I know she wants to have kids.”
Creepy borderline stalker much?
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Date: 2008-02-26 03:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-26 04:42 am (UTC)A little Sopie Tucker will set her straight . . .
Date: 2008-02-26 08:07 am (UTC)That a certain gentleman and I have named a date which I must deny.
He’s rich & handsome & gallant & everything a girl could want
But I’ve learned my lesson and anyhow- I like the way I’m living now.
Cos I’m a one ticket gal, free as the breeze, I go where I like, I do as I please.
When I lock up my apartment, I’ve got all the keys, I’m living alone & I like it.
If I wanna play gin, I stay up & I play gin, I come home when I want to & when I walk in,
There’s nobody growling at me ‘Where the hell have you been?’
I’m living alone & I like it.
I’m a single bed, one pillow Mamma, & there’s no Papa sober or stewed,
Who comes home late to shake me & nudge me & wake me,
To get up & make whoopee when I’m not in the mood.
If I wanna have some fun, if I get bothered & hot, I phone one of those ‘tall dark handsomes’ that I’ve got, if it costs me a twenty or a fifty, so what?
I’m living alone & I like it
No man buys my dresses or pays for my minks, if I get a new hat trimmed with posies & pinks,
There’s no darling husband yelling at me ‘Take it off! It stinks!’
I buy it, I wear it & I like it.
If I should go out riding with some nice young man & he makes a pass- I don’t have to say ‘Yes’, I don’t have to take any of his sass- car belongs to me, I’m paying for the gas.
He can get right outta the car, if he don’t like it.
When my gentleman friend comes up to my house for dinner & it’s very late when we finish with the wine, if in the morning I make him eggs & bacon- it ain’t nobody’s business but mine.
As you already know, I’ve had three matrimonial wrecks
& there’s not gonna be any fourth Mr Ex & I’ll have you know I won’t won’t sign anymore alimony cheques-
I’m living alone & like it!'
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Date: 2008-02-26 12:49 pm (UTC)Seriously. Do you think the editors of the Atlantic would allow anything different to be published?
CB
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Date: 2008-02-26 03:10 pm (UTC)I think she's just ignorant.
Completely unaware of what, how and why she sees relationships the way she does, evaluates partners the way she does, etc.
Thank God I've found a real partner who also shares a mutual spark with me.
I'm continually reminded that there are very few people out there (I think) who find that.
-asa
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Date: 2008-02-26 03:27 pm (UTC)I will turn 40 this summer, with no prospect of marriage in sight, and that is on purpose.
In my latter years of high school, I had a plan: four years of college, marriage to immediately follow, and children right behind. As I moved through those years and on, I found myself going forward, but not accoring to my 'plan'. I have come to understand, It is just not innate in me, and I am very content with that.
The woman who wrote this is a very sad individual and should be addressing that with herself, but is instead going through the motions of foolish assumptions.
Did you see this awesome rebuttal?
Date: 2008-02-27 03:32 am (UTC)