quick CoE sundries

[rm]

I watched CoE again, this time with a group. I loved it even more. Eventually I'll watch it again, with just good friends or alone and wallow again, but today it was fun, and I got to look at it more critically and really enjoy it. I think it's good TV, although with some structural and plot issues. I think the performances were amazing. And most importantly, for my own feelings about it all, I no longer thing Ianto would be ashamed of the choices Jack eventually had to make -- but they would be very hard for him, what with his issues with his own father, Interesting shit.

Also interestnig shit? If you do a rewatch -- pay attention to the color themes on people's clothes -- they shift with aliances and group by family. I am not even kidding. It's GREAT.

Also, that cut on Ianto's face? Through all of at least one episode the cut and small trickle of blood form a lambda. For realz.

I've ranted about the bad behavior going on in this fandom towards creators right now before, but after the things I was told tonight, I feel like I need to say it again. Death threats? To BBC Wales? REALLY?

Look, art is not a democracy.

In fact, all stories start alone. And I say this as someone who writes collaboratively a lot. But all stories start alone. One voice, and then another and another - -whether these be the writers or the chracters of both. And then the story grows. But all stories start as an impulse that needs expression more than the silence and the dark.

When we play in fandom, we too are adding to the story. But stories are not a democracy, rather they are trees as well as shards and fragments. The idea that the fans should have a say in the creation of an original story someone or some team is creating sincerely appalls me. Because art is not a democracy and stories demand their space from the dark.

You don't have to like the stories that come forth. Don't have to play with them. Should be a critic and can completely toss out any canon you want. But those are your stories speaking out, and they don't have to be and shouldn't be anyone else's.

In fencing I learned all sorts of things, like that idea that everyone dies alone and everyone fights alone and everyone lives alone. It sounds bleak at first, but it's not. It's power. It's fact. It's simplicity. I learned the simplest thing is the hardest thing is the best thing. I learned that stories come to us alone.

I'm not saying you have to have liked the many turns CoE took, hell you can loathe it. I really do not care. But never, ever say that people don't have a right to tell their stories and never ever seek or threaten to silence those stories.

I am sad and I'm appalled and because I MAKE STUFF TOO (and to be clear, I don't just mean in a fannish capacity, but as a pro), I do find this personally problematic.

If you haven't seen James Moran's most recent blog post, you should: http://jamesmoran.blogspot.com/2009/07/stepping-back.html.

Also in Whoniverse news that some of you will care about, apparently GDL's one con appearance in the States for the rest of 2009 will be at Hurricaine Who.

Comments

[qthelights.livejournal.com]

I totally agree that what people have been doing is outrageous. I don't think anyone has the right to send death threats or silence stories. It's horrible and is not in any way acceptable from fans or people generally.

That said, art exists to provoke and I think asking questions, about the processes we use to create it, the relationship we have with our audiences, are important ones that we should ask, and not feel we are being ungrateful in doing so. Viewers - in any medium - are part of the process, and depending on who and what and how, sometimes very important ones.

My main problem with CoE is not the story they told, it's how they told it. For a variety of reasons. The affect that that has had and the reasoning behind it.

(though I am of course glad that some people do seem to like it, such as yourself. I just wish I could be one of them!)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and I agree viewers are part of the process -- the critical process and the discussion afterwards. But the idea that the original creators should have served fans over what felt to them serving the story bothers me -- although this too is something we can disagree on.

I'm just getting more and more upset with the things I'm hearing about, both publically and through my own social network.

[qthelights.livejournal.com]

Oh I totally don't think that the creators should serve fans what they felt they ought to get. I've seen that happen in fandoms and it always goes terribly badly, the art absolutely suffers.

What I feel is that the creators served a story that deliberately hurt fans, and that they played on that purposefully. Which to me is a different issue, and not one about fans specifically, but about audiences generally.

But even more so than "discussion afterwards" in this situation, where we had two seasons previously, it was much more of a discussion throughout. A discussion that RTD and co ACTIVELY participated in. If the reason for doing this was to gain ratings, and not because they actually wanted to know how people felt and play to that, then that's really not cool. If they'd wanted all along to just make their series and do what they wanted solely as art, then that'd be fine, but the vibe I got, and that most people got, was that we were in it together.. which is why this turn of events has just slammed everyone from out of seemingly nowhere.

I think this probably goes back a lot to that discussion we were having the other day, about negotiating the fan/producer dynamic. In this case, I feel it was done really really badly.

That doesn't excuse people being assholes to anyone though.

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

I think it becomes a dangerous thing for fandom to start presuming the mindset of the creators -- particularly negatively.

It runs the risk of putting a stranglehold on the ability of the creators to...well...create. To take chances and risks they might not otherwise do if they have to Think About the Fans every step of the way.

Fan feedback is a terrific thing. Fans dictating the creative process is not.

[qthelights.livejournal.com]

I think to me it's not so much about fans, but viewers. And this is for any producers, not simply the Torchwood team. I *do* think that creators should have to keep their audiences in mind, NOT fans specifically. And it is dependent on the media in question - in a continuation of a series? They absolutely have to keep in mind the two series that came before it. They don't have to necessarily stick to what they did, but there should be some thought of what came before, and frankly, I didn't see that in CoE. Particularly when they're deliberately keeping how to get ratings in mind - and tell me *that* doesn't put a stranglehold on the act of creation. Because that's what happened, in my mind, in CoE.

But in Torchwood particular, I think the mindset of the creators was very much open to us, it was really touted as a creative collaboration in a way. Don't get me wrong, I love that. But not if it's used against me for shock value or ratings later on.

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

There is a particular TV show -- I cannot say I'm an avid fan, but I do watch. Last season's finale "shocker" really seemed to have been nothing more than a ratings stunt gone badly awry.

The guilty act was dreadfully out of character for the person to whom the deed was assigned. The motivation for them doing the dead was equally so.

In short -- it jumped the shark with that ep.

That being said...I have no business demanding the creators apologize, grovel, give me their head on a platter or not have done it in the first place (MUCH as I would have preferred the guilty party to be a different character for whom I don't care). None of those are options I get to have as the viewer/fan.

Now I can discuss and critique the creator's choices. I can even whinge and bitch about how wrong I felt they were about it. I can simply decide not to watch any more.

But I don't get to insist the creator did me wrong personally after the fact and demand they make amends for it. That's carrying the collaborative process too far.

[kaffy_r]

"But I don't get to insist the creator did me wrong personally after the fact and demand they make amends for it. That's carrying the collaborative process too far."

Bada-bing, bada-BOOM! You've hit it on the frakkin' nose!

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

I have been reminded of a brilliant quote from the brilliant Mel Brooks in the brilliant film The Producers by way of the character of Franz Liebkind (played by the brilliant Kenneth Mars):

"I am ze author! You are ze audience! I outrank you!"