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Jul. 15th, 2009 11:35 amPatty wants to know if scarecrows work on squirrels.
But this leads to him becoming immortal, and once Jack can't die, he also can't die for any one else, not in a way that means anything, not in a way that speaks to the little boy who maybe didn't want to be a soldier, but sure did want to be a hero. It's a terrible thing, and one that robs Jack (and the audience) of a lot of illusions -- we get hints at this through Torchwood seasons 1 and 2, but it's only in Children of Earth where we really get the message: being a hero is not romantic; war is not romantic -- and I think that's so important, because woe, Jack does make being a hero look romantic, does make war look romantic, and those are terrible things to think, ever.
When Ianto dies, Jack has nothing to bargain with, because his life is not his own, even as he will live it endlessly. When he uses Stephen to defeat the 4-5-6, it is the same -- he cannot act as surrogate. Jack cannot take another's pain onto himself to save them, rather he can only live with pain unimaginable to any of us.
If we look merely at where CoE ends, the message is bleak and pretty horrible. I certainly walked out of my first viewing of it feeling destroyed for Jack and being angry that he was, I thought, a coward. But without his own life to give, it's not that Jack's a coward, it's that he can't be a hero in the simplistic lexicon we all know and all think we'd like to play with and would engage in properly if push ever came to shove in our own lives.
However, if we look at Jack's arc as it relates also to Doctor Who, specifically Gridlock, it's a particularly unique Hero's Journey. Jack -- the eternally youthful and exuberant boy -- must go on alone, for whatever reason, for whatever trials until he is alone enough with himself (in his identity as the Face of Boe) until he can once again give up his own life for millions. And there, in that moment, in Gridlock it's beautiful, not because Jack gets to be our childlike notion of a hero again, but because it is him being returned, for just a moment before he goes, to the life he once had -- one about which he actually has the power of choice.
In the end, we have no idea how many people Jack has loved that he has had to sacrifice directly or indirectly because he loved them. But in the end we do know that Jack -- who really does have epic amounts of self-loathing -- ego aside, finally loved himself.
So yeah. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. (and I'm also thinking.... hrrr, there's some academic analysis to be done somewhere close to this on this....)
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Date: 2009-07-15 03:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 03:50 pm (UTC)Human hair does. Whenever I got my hair cut as a kid my neighbor (lovely little old lady) would ask for the bits I cut off. She said untreated, human hair works wonders at keep vermon away from plants and veggies. Apparently, she'd place bits of it around the base of the plant and they wouldn't be bothered (and they would compost rather well to boot).
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Date: 2009-07-15 08:13 pm (UTC)Seems like awfully tempting as nesting material, but I don't know.
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From:Watering the Basil
Date: 2009-07-15 03:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 04:11 pm (UTC)Is it weird for you that CoE and Half-Blood Prince are both out within a week of each other? I know how passionate you are about both of them. Are you more prepared going into Half-Blood Prince because you already know what's going to happen?
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Date: 2009-07-15 04:29 pm (UTC)The simultaneousness factor is only trying really because of how CoE ended, especially since my first response was "Jack you fucking coward, Ianto would be so ashamed of you." I felt ashamed of myself after my first watch of Day 5, and that was awful, with HBP and Snape's "Don't Call Me Coward!" line coming.
But then I watched it again. And no, Severus Snape is not a coward. And neither is Jack Harkness. But yeah... I can't do it this week.
"Jack you fucking coward, Ianto would be so ashamed of you."
From:no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 04:12 pm (UTC)As to pregnancy clothes, even loose to hide the belly is better than what it was at one time. My mom and I went to the Met once for a costume exhibit and they had a prenancy corset! The thing looked like samurai armor. Damn wonder our grandparents and great grands weren't all born deformed.
Travel safe on your trip!
I like Boston. It was where I went on my very first, planned it all on my own, vacation way more years than I can to admit ago. ;-)
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Date: 2009-07-15 04:13 pm (UTC)Also, you might want to put plants inside a sunny window to protect against squirrels and birds.
I'm told that mounding crushed ice on the soil will time-release water as it melts (which takes several days) but I've never tried it myself.
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Date: 2009-07-15 04:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 04:21 pm (UTC)Your analysis of Jack is spot-on. Jack is one Damn good conflicted Character.
-A33
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Date: 2009-07-15 04:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 04:33 pm (UTC)"He said to them, "Wherever you enter a house, stay there until you leave from there. Whatever place does not welcome you or listen to you, leave there and shake the dust off your feet in testimony against them.
So they went off and preached repentance."
I just couldn't believe that reading was the one read all over the Catholic world the weekend after CoE. Jack's kicking the dirt of Earth off his boots. Yeah. It made me cry harder.
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Date: 2009-07-15 04:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 05:00 pm (UTC)2. cover your tomato plants with thin white cloth to keep squirrels away. They'll still get the sun they need
3. Bring mr. basil in and just leave up high where he gets some light.
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Date: 2009-07-15 08:21 pm (UTC)The ancient evil that is the squirrel must not be underestimated.
Like Sauron, only clever.
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Date: 2009-07-15 05:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 05:03 pm (UTC)And thank you!
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Date: 2009-07-15 05:21 pm (UTC)Who knows what he'll do on Doctor Who later this year. I'm a little worried about that.
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Date: 2009-07-15 05:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 05:24 pm (UTC)Have fun in Boston. I don't know about you, but as upset as I initially was over Certain Events (beyond just the one at the end of 4, for sure) in Torchwood, the more I process, the more I am okay with it and find myself really hoping we get to see Jack evolve and heal (just not instantaneously, I hope). He'll probably still cycle quite a bit, but I really have to believe his story goes more like the Buddhism analogy above than as, I dunno, Sisyphus or Prometheus.
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Date: 2009-07-15 05:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 05:36 pm (UTC)It very much related to the way I view war and heroism.
It's currently the third anniversary of the war in which I served (second Lebanon war, I was in the HQ) and what went on in Day Five was such an anathema to what we're used to in heroes... him watching Steven die... holding Ianto and pleading with the 4-5-6... it was the one of the most poignant and unromantic scenes ever.
Bloody brilliant and painful.
Thank you.
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Date: 2009-07-15 07:18 pm (UTC)Meanwhile, have you seen this tripe? http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_political/3570227.html
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Date: 2009-07-15 05:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 05:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2009-07-15 05:54 pm (UTC)Re: Jack’s departure, it’s Gwen who frames it as running away, though his reply, “Just watch me,” can be read as implicit agreement. What it boils down to for me is that Jack is carrying a staggering load of guilt and grief, and there is literally not enough therapy in the world. From that perspective, Jack’s departure from Earth, which he can currently only see as a planetwide graveyard, is arguably a good sign — at least he’s trying to do something to lessen the pain, instead of wallowing. (Also, I would not be surprised if on some level, perhaps only unconsciously, Jack sees himself as a Typhoid Mary and wants to go before something happens to Gwen.)
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Date: 2009-07-15 06:48 pm (UTC)Oo, good point. Particularly since Gwen really now has a whole lot of other plates to spin setting up her new household and trying to survive what's left of the UK after the events six months earlier, and Jack's seen what's happened to everyone else in the Hub...
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From:As I think of it
Date: 2009-07-15 07:09 pm (UTC)I think the first time I saw pictures of someone pregnant was when a childhood friend was showing a photo album she made for her first child. And she was photographed days before the delivery in profile and you could actually see her protruding round belly.
This notion is washing over me in an unexpected way.
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Date: 2009-07-15 07:29 pm (UTC)Yeah, posted by one of the more, er, *conservative* mods at ontd_p. I backed away from that one in short order. The comparison of Gwen with Palin... I don't even know where that one comes from, frankly.
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Date: 2009-07-15 07:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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From:This makes probably zero sense to any non-Australian's on my friends list
Date: 2009-07-15 07:38 pm (UTC)Patty. Scarecrow. Squirrels.
Date: 2009-07-15 07:52 pm (UTC)What they are scared of:
Bells(strange noises, but the learning curve can be steep.)
Predatory bird silhouettes and shadows(never fails.)
Carnivore scent.To be blunt, urine.(Vegetarians have to borrow from neighbours.) I mention this because it was asked. We never had this conversation, thank you.
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Date: 2009-07-15 08:02 pm (UTC)This crap I remember from the 8th Doctor movie. There was a gun. Hand gun yet. And the Doctor kissed a lady on the mouth. Ergo, the 8th Doctor was too American. The Fans, they can be the children, yes?
Get your crazy paws off my big gay show!
Date: 2009-07-15 08:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-15 10:46 pm (UTC)best description of jack ever
while i never thought jack a coward at the end of CoE, i can see the rest of your point here (i'm still not 100% sure on my feelings about s3 as a whole)