I was thinking in sort of an off-hand way the other day when I saw someone comment in regard to a couple of Doctor Who episodes (sorry, can't remember which of you it was) about how Britain is never going to get over WWII, that better that then... well, the US. I feel sometimes, that all we can remember is the Cold War that came after and our paranoia. Everyone is out to get us! If we approached the global threat of terrorism through the lends of WWII instead of through the lens of the Cold War, would we be behaving better? Would Gitmo be closed? Would we stop trading civil liberties for a false-sense of security? I don't know, but over here, I think we could use a lot more WWII memories and a lot fewer Cold War ones.
I was thinking in sort of an off-hand way the other day when I saw someone comment in regard to a couple of Doctor Who episodes (sorry, can't remember which of you it was) about how Britain is never going to get over WWII, that better that then... well, the US. I feel sometimes, that all we can remember is the Cold War that came after and our paranoia. Everyone is out to get us! If we approached the global threat of terrorism through the lends of WWII instead of through the lens of the Cold War, would we be behaving better? Would Gitmo be closed? Would we stop trading civil liberties for a false-sense of security? I don't know, but over here, I think we could use a lot more WWII memories and a lot fewer Cold War ones.
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Date: 2010-01-29 06:27 pm (UTC)(I think really I just had issues with the way he phrased it, though, TBH.)
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Date: 2010-01-29 07:19 pm (UTC)During the Cold War we were afraid of the very thing happening to us that happened to Great Britain, and that we made happen to the Japanese: Death from the sky. But it never came, until 9/11. I'm going to think about how that Cold War mentality was reinforced by that event....
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Date: 2010-01-29 07:28 pm (UTC)Interesting point. Thinking of historical ironies, apparently "Band of Brothers", a miniseries set in WWII, broadcast its first two episodes two days before 9/11 and was (apparently) very nearly never completely shown as a result.
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Date: 2010-01-29 07:22 pm (UTC)Meanwhile, in Cardiff WTFery: http://worldofwonder.net/2010/01/29/AD_CAMPAIGN_FAIL/
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Date: 2010-01-29 07:23 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-29 07:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-29 07:33 pm (UTC)Still amazingly LOL.
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Date: 2010-01-29 07:37 pm (UTC)Cardiff bus ad - its a joke right? I mean it has to be, right? They couldn't have seriously...oh they did. Nevermind.
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Date: 2010-01-29 07:43 pm (UTC)Me, too. Too often I feel like that little rover wanting to be enough, do well enough so that I will get to go home. Wherever it is that home is.
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Date: 2010-01-29 07:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-29 08:37 pm (UTC)I am glad his murderer was convicted of 1st degree murder.
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Date: 2010-01-29 11:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-29 08:42 pm (UTC)I saw that ad a couple of days ago and sent to Alec Hopkins, who it turns out is originally a Cardi lad. :c)
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Date: 2010-01-29 09:14 pm (UTC)Have fun if you guys end up going.
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Date: 2010-01-29 09:37 pm (UTC)In a weird way, WW II feels more relevant to my life than ’Nam, even though Dad is a Vietnam-era vet (though thankfully he was never In The Shit). My paternal grandfather would have enrolled in dental school if Pearl Harbor hadn't been bombed; instead he joined the Army Air Forces and was part of the group that succeeded the Flying Tigers. Presumably, somewhere there's an alternate universe in which he, Dad, and my uncles are all dentists instead of pilots.
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Date: 2010-01-29 09:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-01-29 09:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-29 10:36 pm (UTC)Both of these leave a severe impact on the people who experienced them, but the simulated devastation brought to us in "The Day After" or "When the Wind Blows" can't hold a candle to walking the streets and standing in the bombed out pit that was once your home or ancestral house, complete with the bodies of loved ones.
Thanks for making me think. I never would have come up with that one on my own.
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Date: 2010-01-29 11:46 pm (UTC)Have you ever seen that movie AI: Artificial Intelligence? That comic sort of reminds me of it. And that movie ranks up there with some of the most disturbing I've ever seen for similar reasons. It just quirks something in my head.
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Date: 2010-01-30 01:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-29 11:55 pm (UTC)I saw the xkcd strip as mostly riffing on Wall-E, but it was still quite touching.
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Date: 2010-01-29 11:58 pm (UTC)They are tough and they are brave and they are courageous. Don't insult them by portraying them as homesick creatures that have been abandoned. They have impressed the hell out of everyone who followed them. See them as curious, stubborn, resourceful explorers who have gone out to do the best job they can and done better than ever expected.
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Date: 2010-01-30 12:11 am (UTC)When I grew up hearing about war, it was about muddy, rat infested trenches and friend's corpses left in no man's land because they couldn't be retrieved. It was about gruelling boredom interspersed with abject terror, trench foot, lice, inedible food and "going over the top". It was grim pride in the fact that we did things that no other country had managed no matter how many times they tried, but without ever forgetting for a moment what it had cost. There's no Memorial day in Canada, it's Remembrance Day, renamed from Armistice Day; still commemorated at the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month. Needless to say, it's short on picnics but long on tears and ceremony.
Maybe the really scary thing about the cold war and "war on terror" being what occupies your countrypeople's minds is that so few of you have actually been touched by it. 9/11 was a horror, of course, and the country was rocked to its roots, but even with the subsequent war in Iraq, as a culture you are too far away from it. You have not watched every able-bodied young man of a generation walk away for four years. Too few of you are directly involved; too few of you that really understand why "glorious war" is such an oxymoron. You all get fear, you just don't necessarily have the horror embedded in your culture the way some do.
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Date: 2010-01-30 03:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2010-01-30 05:26 am (UTC)And I so hear you on the idea that sharp dark-haired woman = villain in America. I blame Disney, because I never related to the fair-haired pug-nosed girls that still make up half their princess roster. Fortunately, I married someone who always thought the wicked witches and evil stepmoms were hotter. Awww...
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Date: 2010-01-30 08:57 am (UTC)I think it did manage to clarify to me, however, one of the reasons I've been feeling upset and on edge about the proposed US Torchwood series. One of the other complaints about COE which rather got lost in the other stuff was that they blew up the Hub (and a large amount of the Roald Dahl Plass and the Millenium Centre) and RTD, in interviews, didn't even seem to care (poor Myfanwy). And that's been tugging at the back of my mind and last night it came together; he may or may not have been de-gaying the show to make it more palatable to Fox by killing Ianto(I don't believe this was necessarily so, but it's a possibility that I rejected out of hand before the Fox story broke and now am less certain) but he was absolutely certainly de-Britishing the show by blowing up the Hub and therefore destroying the connection with Cardiff. And it's a symbol that new Torchwood - if it happens - will no longer be interested in stories like to The Last Man or exploring the class issues which were done so well and so interestingly in the first three days of COE because they aren't the stories that an American audience is interested in hearing. And there won't be another An Empty Child/The Doctor Dances for the same reason. And that's another bit of my cultural heritage gone. Which makes me both angry and afraid - and hence, liable to lash out. And I am very sorry.
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Date: 2010-01-30 04:51 pm (UTC)As to the rest of it, I always appreciate thinky-thoughts and self-awareness and the ultimate conclusion you reach (regarding your cultural heritage and your feelings about it) is both a good and interesting one.
However, and I'm not saying you did this (quite frankly, I'm not sure, so don't worry about that either, but just as you needed to write out your process above, I need to write out mine below), but this comes up over and over again in my journal (often, it seems, when people are apologizing for things I didn't think they needed to) so I'm just throwing it out there anyway: I have really different feelings about what RTD (or any creative) is obligated to care about. Creatives aren't required to feel the way I feel about a story/place/character. I see the "he didn't even care about Myfanwy" thing over and over again and my main reaction is "was he supposed to?" I've no problem with people saying that ultimately leads to a type of storytelling they don't like or that they feel it produces weaknesses/flaws in the work, but I have a hard time with people criticizing a creator because their/our perception of their emotional involvement in the world isn't what we have decided it should be.
As to Ianto's death -- Jack's narrative is about the tragedy of eternal life. Torchwood's narrative is that (someone said this in fanfic and I love it) in Torchwood "if you don't die young, you die weird" and sometimes it's both. Jack's lovers are going to die as a major plotpoint as long as he has lovers on the show. They are going to be young and go out in grisley ways as long as the plot makes them TW operatives (which since so much of the plot is "you can't have a RL in TW"). If Jack's omnisexuality is going to shown on the show, that means there's going to be a lot of dead young gay dudes. Are we in a cultural moment where that can still look like fridging to lots of people? Yes. Is that the intent? I don't think so. Do any of us truly have any way of knowing what goes on in RTD's head? Nope.
Look, I love watching fictional tragedy. Maybe RTD does too. And maybe he likes his fictional tragedy to look a little bit like his life. Which means when he kills off someone like Ianto, it's not homophobia or some evil plan with Fox or whatever. Maybe he just has buttons that are easily misread in 2010. That's my suspicion anyway.