White Collar seems to be hitting something in people other than "pretty suits" and "lying liar who lies" and I suspect it's because we see Neal getting that hand-at-the-back mentoring from Peter that I think a decent number of the folks who identified with Ianto really wanted to see Ianto get from Jack (and we don't see it overtly, like we do in White Collar, we had to assume it, and for me, in that regard Ianto had very much arrived in terms of competence by the time of CoE, so I think maybe people didn't just lose the character, they lost the dynamic they both wanted and needed him for, hence the rage in some cases). So I think it's meeting that need for a benevolent but harsh taskmaster thing as gen or as kinky as the viewers want.
Peter makes Neal a finer thing. People _wanted_ Jack to make Ianto a finer thing, but whether he did (whether he tried, whether that was the dynamic there) is far more arguable.
That's what I'm seeing anyway, as someone who wasted a lot of their 20s wanting someone to make me a finer thing and then decided no one else was really worthy or capable of the job (I am not saying this desire is jejune, btw, I am saying this desire led me to be an idiot and didn't work for me; your storybook may vary).
And I didn't watch Torchwood through that lens (I saw Ianto as someone Jack (and others in the past) forced to learn to do such stuff for himself, fast, and I appreciated the relationship for that reason. I also didn't identify with Ianto, which is separate but tangental). Watching White Collar, however, gives me a nostalgia for the desires of my 20s. I recognize, very keenly the texture of the day-dreams it evokes for me.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-23 08:39 pm (UTC)Ack, I am really really sorry for implying that. :(
I think it's more a matter of when three people I admire and respect all see things in one way (even if you all see it in that way for very different reasons), it makes me doubt myself. And it especially makes me doubt myself when I find myself seeking "refuge" in heteronormative places.
And also, a big part of why I doubt myself here is because I do know that love looks different for different people, and one of the things I liked about J/I in S2 was that they experienced love differently to me. So it scares and disturbs me, that with CoE, I just cannot see it. Usually I'm pretty good at seeing WHY people feel a certain way even if I don't share those feelings. But with CoE, there are just a few things that I can't get past (the hug, Jack not acknowledging Ianto in the quarry, the couch, Jack not thanking Ianto for the coat). And it's hard, because I WANT to see it, you know? I want to be able to see what you see, and I don't know why I can't.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-23 09:09 pm (UTC)