That said...
Dear Everyone Else, I am extremely sick of people calling her "a bitch" and "a slut" and other gendered terms that are about shaming female gender and sexuality because they either are (rightfully) angry about this latest debacle and default to those words (I'm working on it too!) or, and this is what I'm really irritated about, because they don't like that she's marrying Neil Gaiman.
This thing is about Amanda Palmer and who she is in public. While this thing may or may not be relevant to who she or Gaiman are are in private, if you don't know them personally (_personally_, not whatever quirk of internet/celebrity culture put the whole Internet on a first name basis with them) who they are at home isn't relevant to you, and the jealousy and misogyny I've seen directed at her deeply, deeply muddies the water in the critical response to her work and the performance of her public life. Please knock it off. It's not helping, and it's not appropriate.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-27 08:04 am (UTC)the whole point was one of nationalism vs racism and how they can be confused.
Of course it's equally offensive, but as each person will interpret it as per their own values. I was not arguing that it is not offensive - it is and it can be specifically offensive depending on how you look at it and from what point of view.
Yes my point was that context is a key role in the interpretation of a "joke" that possibly perpetuates a singular point of view by origin, but by interpertaion has multiple possibilities.
My point is not to offend anyone, but to unravel the layers and ways that a person could be offended by it despite the intent of the initial.
I want to analyze it from possible points of view - to inculde the ones I did not take into consideration which is why I put it out for public consumption in the first place. I am not in any way saying that my point of view is THE one and the specific and only - I asked for opinion both to share an open space for consideration and for my own education - to which you have sincerely contributed to.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-27 02:37 pm (UTC)I appreciate that. This is a conflict which is frequently mischaracterised in ways which can be very damaging (Americans giving money to the IRA, for example, without apparently understanding exactly what they're funding), hence my objection to your terminology. I'm sure you appreciate these are issues which are deeply sensitive and personal for many people (my uncle was a British soldier in NI, as it happens). It's easy enough to tell a joke like that in a bar in Denver; tell it in Belfast at the wrong time, the wrong place, it could be worth someone's life.
Honestly, I doubt you're going to have luck finding any kind of ethnic joke which is less loaded in terms of its political history and intersectionality - the reason these jokes endure is because they sting, and that sting has to come from somewhere.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-27 10:32 pm (UTC)