And I'm upset at declarations of "all __________ feel ___________ about this law."
I am an American citizen who, because I don't drive, very often happens not to carry ID. This is not a political statement; it's just a fact. The passport doesn't fit neatly into everything, sometimes I forget to change it between jackets. I don't always have ID.
And, historically, legally, that's been okay. There is no national ID card in America. There is no legal requirement that I be able to identify my citizenship and residency status for any reason at any time. I cannot be stopped on the street for no other reason than how I look and be asked for my papers. If, in the course of some other event, cops ask me for ID, if I don't have it on me, yeah, that'll be a hassle, but it's not a crime in and of itself (reality is slightly more complicated than that, but I'm going with brevity and the assumption that I'm not committing a crime at the time of said hypothetical police interaction).
The Arizona law, to my reading, changes that in Arizona. To my reading of the political climate of Arizona and its particular issues, people can make all the noise they want about this law being directed at all illegal immigrants, I still read this as specifically targeting the Latino population for reasons that - while it may include some legitimate concerns about the very screwed up state of immigration, immigration laws and immigration enforcement in the US - absolutely, positively look like racism to me.
And, while I have not, nor do I intend to, refer to the people who have put this law into action as Nazi's, because that is hyperbole (and not useful hyperbole), I will saw unequivocably that one of the reasons the law makes me uncomfortable, beyond its racism, beyond the distraction it provides from deterring crime with clear-cut and immediate victims, is because I'm a Jewish person. Full stop. Other Jews may or may not feel that way. I do.
And guess what? I'm allowed to.
I am too fucking old to "agree to disagree" on some aspects of some issues. These include racism and civil rights. Does a person in Arizona have more meaningful commentary to offer on this law than I? You bet. Do Latino people? Also yes. Do people with personal immigration-related experiences? Yup. Here's the thing though, we all get our perspective. And I can't speak for anyone else. So I'd like people to stop speaking for me or telling me how I should speak.
You can think anything you damn well want about the law in Arizona. But the voicing of opinions has consequences - for me and for you. For everyone. And I won't socialize with people who think I'm less than human because of any of the various categories I fit in to.
That also means I'm not interested in socializing with people who think those sorts of things about others because of their categories. We're all a little bit racist and a whole lot ignorant; it's the human condition and I can live with it, especially when we're all trying to do better. But it's the a lot racist and the proud of ignorance thing I've got a problem with.
And don't call me stupid. Ever.
Meanwhile on Angel it's the return of Ann. That fundraiser thing was so ridiculous; weirdly it reminded me of the most useless White Collar episode ever, witht he mortgage fraud. It was that same sort of "ignore the actual boring thing driving this plot" problem.
Angel and his humans are so useless without each other. I loved the demon from the 1920s Angel has the fight drama going on with. Great character, great performance. I like Wesley around Gun. It makes Wesley seem like he's actually getting to be a boy, and it strikes me that that's unusual for him, like he had to be a serious little adult at nine. I mean, I did, and I wasn't a Watcher. ;)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-30 06:49 pm (UTC)Actually they can't - not just for that. It has to be in the process of something else. If they were speeding, and not wearing their seat belts and were pulled over , then he could call ICE to validate them.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-30 08:08 pm (UTC)Based on where I sit from the next state over (California), if AZ cops are anything like the CHP? Maria and Juan are going down.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-30 08:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-04-30 08:27 pm (UTC)But realistically, they would not have US driver licenses, so they would either produce international driver licenses and/or passports , which would be run through ICE.
Agreed that bad cops exists, but with or without this law bad cops exist.
When you say they would be 'going down' what would they be going down for? What they were pulled over for, or for other reasons ? If they are pulled for speeding/vehicle law the first thing the cop says is license, insurance and registration. If Maria and Juan can't produce any, then they are going down just like I would if I was driving around with no license/registration/insurance. Hell I had NYPD threaten to throw me in jail , and tear apart my car for having expired plates , with a valid license, registration, and insurance. The cop was screaming at me about DHS and the things they could do to me.
Bad cops exist, and they always will. I'm not debating that at all. It's just that this law, while open for question and debate, is not as bad as it's being made out to be. Especially when a mirror law exists.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-30 11:27 pm (UTC)< sarcasm >Because we all know how tricksy those Brown People are and those IDs are probably fake. < /sarcasm >
You can argue all you want about the law not being "so bad." As written, it might not be. But, as I said, coming from another border state, I guarantee the cops will do one of two things:
1. not enforce it at all because it's too much time and paperwork
2. over-enforce it and toss Hispanic legal US citizens in jail.
Having grown up in a part of Southern California where the Brown People existed only to clean your house or mow your lawn (except, of course for Cinco de Mayo, when *everybody* is Hispanic), the Black People don't exist at all (unless they got lost on their way back to South Central LA) and the Asians are the only acceptable minority because they are so smart (just so long as they don't flood the best colleges so my kid can't get in), I know precisely how implementation of this will play out.
I don't care how the law is written. How it will get implemented? Yeah, that's gonna be a Mongolian Clusterf**k.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-30 11:51 pm (UTC)Not quite - as with all traffic stops the first thing the cop will ask for is license, registration, and proof of insurance. The cop will instantly know that they are not Americans when they provide passports. A quick call to ICE will verify their visa/guest status.
Assuming that they are , say visiting, then their car will be a rental or borrowed from a friend - in which case they will get extra scrutiny for not being the vehicle owners. They will wash it through "The Beast" ( my pet name for the national criminal database ) to make sure the car is not stolen or reported stolen by the rental company and verify the insurance.
Ive been through these things - this is experience talking, not armchair citations.
I guarantee the cops will do one of two things:
1. not enforce it at all because it's too much time and paperwork
2. over-enforce it and toss Hispanic legal US citizens in jail.
If 1, they should be shitcanned for not doing their jobs.
If 2 ... well how could they possibly do #2 if the first thing they do is check for ID? If they have ID they have proof of citizenship right there ( that has been addressed by AZ lawyers already ) , if they don't have ID they , like anyone else, get slapped with a misdemeanor / fine for not having ID on them --- assuming they are as you said legal US citizens.
And if it goes farther than that , the lawsuits fly.
How it will get implemented? Yeah, that's gonna be a Mongolian Clusterf**k.
The whole thing already is a clusterfuck. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Good cops vs bad cops , vs we the people. I'm making popcorn.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-30 08:27 pm (UTC)