PSA: Queer
Jun. 18th, 2010 11:38 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rm(This is an outgrowth of a comment thread I'm having with someone in their journal. If that someone is you, no worries, we're cool).
Queer (as an adjective, we will not be using the noun here) is not inherently synonymous with gay and lesbian or LGBT.1
Many LGBT people do not like or choose to use queer and/or feel it to represent something additional or instead of gay and lesbian or LGBT.
Because queer was originally a slur and not all LGBT people like to use it,2 it's generally best that straight people don't use the word unless talking about people and groups that self-identify as queer.
Queer can be considered a non-assimilationist word. Some LGBT people who are not interested in getting equal rights by proving we're just like straight people prefer the term. (This is like when I rant about how "I'm queer and you can tell and I like it that way.")
Some non-trans people who are gender non-conforming use the term or variations there of (i.e., genderqueer).
Some trans people who are additionally not straight use the term as a shorthand way of encompassing multiple identities.
Some people who would traditionally be called "bisexual" use the term to avoid the reinforcement of a binary gender dichotomy.
Some people prefer queer because it removes the separation between men and women in the LGBT community, breaks down barriers between bisexual and other orientation identities, and can be more inclusive of the T part of the LGBT (which often gets pushed aside, because oppressed groups can be crappy to each other too).
Others like it because it's only one syllable.
Additionally queer is sometimes used to encompass kink, polyamorous and other non-traditional relationship styles in a way that may or may not be related to LGBT individuals depending on the community.3
As usual, I don't speak for all LGBT or queer people, just myself and my experience of our communities. If you have questions or more to add, consider the comments a free for all. I'm particularly interested in other people's sense and connotations for the word as ongoing discussion in the original thread is revealing that they are highly varied.
1 A commenter reminds me that LGBT is just not enough these days, nor is LGBTQ, which you'll also often see. The full acronym these days often includes not just LGBT, but Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Asexual and more.
2 It's also just been brought to my attention that age may be a factor in how one reacts to queer so this PSA might seem more or less peculiar to you depending on your age.
3 Please see comments for additional discussion of this as there is disagreement on this one. It is problematic for many, and I tend to agree, although the arguments for its inclusion in queer also make a lot of sense.
ETA: Please read the comments. This is such an awesome display of diverse identities, respectful discussion about fraught issues and random people making friends I can't quite get over it. I am loving the LJ today.
Queer (as an adjective, we will not be using the noun here) is not inherently synonymous with gay and lesbian or LGBT.1
Many LGBT people do not like or choose to use queer and/or feel it to represent something additional or instead of gay and lesbian or LGBT.
Because queer was originally a slur and not all LGBT people like to use it,2 it's generally best that straight people don't use the word unless talking about people and groups that self-identify as queer.
Queer can be considered a non-assimilationist word. Some LGBT people who are not interested in getting equal rights by proving we're just like straight people prefer the term. (This is like when I rant about how "I'm queer and you can tell and I like it that way.")
Some non-trans people who are gender non-conforming use the term or variations there of (i.e., genderqueer).
Some trans people who are additionally not straight use the term as a shorthand way of encompassing multiple identities.
Some people who would traditionally be called "bisexual" use the term to avoid the reinforcement of a binary gender dichotomy.
Some people prefer queer because it removes the separation between men and women in the LGBT community, breaks down barriers between bisexual and other orientation identities, and can be more inclusive of the T part of the LGBT (which often gets pushed aside, because oppressed groups can be crappy to each other too).
Others like it because it's only one syllable.
Additionally queer is sometimes used to encompass kink, polyamorous and other non-traditional relationship styles in a way that may or may not be related to LGBT individuals depending on the community.3
As usual, I don't speak for all LGBT or queer people, just myself and my experience of our communities. If you have questions or more to add, consider the comments a free for all. I'm particularly interested in other people's sense and connotations for the word as ongoing discussion in the original thread is revealing that they are highly varied.
1 A commenter reminds me that LGBT is just not enough these days, nor is LGBTQ, which you'll also often see. The full acronym these days often includes not just LGBT, but Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Asexual and more.
2 It's also just been brought to my attention that age may be a factor in how one reacts to queer so this PSA might seem more or less peculiar to you depending on your age.
3 Please see comments for additional discussion of this as there is disagreement on this one. It is problematic for many, and I tend to agree, although the arguments for its inclusion in queer also make a lot of sense.
ETA: Please read the comments. This is such an awesome display of diverse identities, respectful discussion about fraught issues and random people making friends I can't quite get over it. I am loving the LJ today.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 03:18 pm (UTC)As a young straight lad I do not get what you mean. Perhaps in a ¨higher society¨, gender roles are more defined nevertheless, I never expected women to want to attract males, at least the kind of women I want. Aren't there things more interestings than the research of a mate? For mating will inexorably come. That said,
Didn't feminism legalize women's independence? Do not you have equal rights to a man to do whatever you want?
...
Maybe we live in different worlds or maybe one of us is blind, but I just don't like how you define yourself through the perception of others, so this is my soft rant.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 03:50 pm (UTC)Misogyny exists in every part of our society, albeit in different ways. Sometimes it's more subtle (a woman getting passed over for promotion because she's seen as 'too confrontational') and sometimes it's not (a man sexually harassing a woman every day at the bus stop and her knowing the police will do nothing.)
Your last statement is interesting, because to me part of my queer identity (and please note the difference between identity and definition) is that I /don't/ subscribe to how society tells me I "should" behave/dress/talk.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 05:13 pm (UTC)I concede that there is no Equal Rights amendment. As there is no legal worldwide recognition of Isreal as a sovereign state, thing they demand and no country ever received. The point being that Isreal not only has the rights of any sovereign states but also has priveleges. Think colonies, Gaza and their ¨accepted¨ intolerance of Palestinians. Think more flexible working hours for mothers and the structure supporting them.
There is no guarantee for either women's or Israel's rights, (Nor for any other state or men)but they still have them and you can find that online easily. (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_rights#International_and_regional_law)
Concerning your claim that women make less money for the same output than men, I have no idea where you took that fact. As far that I know they do. (And if your claim is true, perhaps women from our culture do not negotiate their salary as much?)
I also concede that misogyny exists, and you may be misusing the word. For the hatred of men, blacks, yellows, whites, jews, islamics, christians, etc also exists. So I'll asume you were talking of the now obselete idea of how a woman should behave(or any person).
As taller men will get promoted faster and handsome looking people will be more assertive. It's a human bias we generally try to avoid when we are aware of it.(don't remember sources)
I think that you can agree that most days of the majority of the population are routine and that the kind of apparently hatred of women you express are the produce of an older generation and their views(concerning promotions,etc) and of personal psychosis. (maybe, the harasser is deranged, the woman is very shy, that police was a misogynist, anything, etc)
Now, keeping in mind that women have as much rights if not more than men and that today more then ever women from ¨advanced countries¨ are allowed to be as they want, (legally that is, without taking in account their direct environment) and it is far-fetched to say that they are victims. I even remember them saying how most guys seem afraid of them.
Okay, this was nice, I never had the opportunity to structure my thoughts on this subject. Thank you. And it's funny how you consider non-conformity part of being queer.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 05:27 pm (UTC)Your claim than women have as much (if not more) right is a straw man argument. Your anecdote of remembering seeing how much men fear women is an example of misogyny, FYI.
Also, Israel is a recognised sovereign state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_formation_date#Asia) (despite not having a constitution). The fact that some blow hards consider it illegitimate in neither here nor there and I find it quite baffling that you would use it as an analogy for the "arbitrariness" of human rights.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 06:40 pm (UTC)My claim on rights is one I cannot defend.
Could you explain to me how men fearing women is misogyny? To me it is more a question of not seeing a woman as a fellow human being, an equal with differences. A fear of failure to connect which is interpreted as fear of the other one.
On Israel, it is my mistake. I mixed sovereignity and the recognition of its right to exist. (plenty info available) Which I think changes nothing to my original point. There is no clear gender role anymore. At least I do not see any.
By equality of rights between men and women I seek to express equality of rights for the spectrum malish-womanish. Once that is attained in practice, what is there to stop you from expressing yourself but yourself? And why having to define your doings by existing standards, by today's words? I say enjoy the moments with those you are attracted to.
I will stop here.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 06:53 pm (UTC)That would be misogyny, much like racial segregation on par of "equal but different" is Racism!
Dude, I live in Israel and if I didn't, the recognition of a nation or individual's right to exist is an asinine argument to make.
I am left to conclude that you are so entrenched in your ideas of straight maleness that you do not realise that queer people are not, in fact, free to enjoy moments with whom they are attracted because queer sexuality is not approved of by society at large - from innocent gawking at public displays of affection between a same sex couple to murder - I suggest you educate yourself.
As for the "equality" between men and women, I suggest you read this list (http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/) and try to educate yourself from there.
Your ignorance can be tolerated only so much.
This may seem harsh to you, this may seem impatient to you, but you are not the first and very likely not the last, young straight lad who needs a wake up call.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 07:15 pm (UTC)I'm always unsure as to how far I should take these kinds of arguments. On one hand, maybe I can help someone see a different side of things. On the other hand...maybe I can't.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 07:18 pm (UTC)BTW, you seem very cool, do you mind if I add you?
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 07:26 pm (UTC)I mean. *dignified face* Of course! I shall add you back.
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 07:24 pm (UTC)I think you're cool too, and would also like to add you.:)
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 07:28 pm (UTC)Yay! More friends! I can't guarantee I'm actually cool, but I'll add you if you add me. :P
Maybe I should argue with people on the internet more often...
no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 06:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-06-19 07:10 pm (UTC)A few tips, since you seem to be new at this:
Don't assume anything. If you have an actual question about what someone was referring to, ask them. Saying "I'll assume you meant..." is insulting and makes you look lazy.
Try not to use phrases like "I think you can agree..." This gives your writing a very patronizing tone and is frankly irritating.
Also, it's a good idea to read through your post before you submit it, to make sure you've caught typos and said what you meant to say.
I'm not going to argue any more with you, because it just isn't worth my time or effort. Please don't think this means I agree with you.