I wouldn't want anyone to have to lie to their parents about their sexuality. The point is the investment you have in their reaction. At a certain stage, we all need to be independent from the feelings and beliefs of our parents. They, and their attitudes, can no longer dictate to us. I have noticed this sort of trade-off before. We want our parents to accept us as we are - but are we ready, always, to accept them as they are? We resist their imposition of their issues on to us. But don't we seek to tell them how to feel and to react? All encounters on this level demand a trade-off - acceptance isn't a one-way street. rm should have to pretend about anything, but neither should her parents, should they? If we want our feelings to be recognized as legitimate, if we want people to accept us as we are, mustn't we be ready to do the same for others?
At a certain stage, we all need to be independent from the feelings and beliefs of our parents.
I don't necessarily think that being independent means that a parent's rejection or denial isn't going to hurt like hell on some level. Sometimes it is a big deal, and it doesn't matter if you're still influenced by your parents or not.
I realize that a lot of my values and positions about this may be cultural. I'm a WASP and I think there tends to be more distancing in WASPy families than in others. My wife's family is Chinese, for example, and there is a lot more family-interaction expected than in a WASP family. Consequently, what your family, and especially what your parents, thinks about you is a much bigger deal. At the same time, as I was telling my wife this morning, she knows when she has to draw a line with her mom – and her sister solved a lot of these problems by living further away.
I realize that suffering your parents’ disapproval can hurt like hell. But age is also an issue to remember. I don’t expect teenagers to be able to handle parental rejection better than people in their 30s. Once you reach a certain age, you need to develop a certain amount of emotional distance from your parents and their opinions – especially if they are the kind of parents who are homophobic or are going to be negative about something like this.
I had a conversation once with my own mom about the different ways my brother and I dealt with parental approval. He feels, ironically given this thread, that my parents have rejected him because he is a fundamentalist Christian and GOP voter. He craves their approval and doesn’t feel like he gets it. I, on the other hand, don’t care that much either way and feel like I have their approval – maybe because they admire my independence. What I want for rm is that she be strong enough not to let her parents get to her one way or the other – beyond a certain point. Once you are past a certain age, you should be able to cope better with your parents – even if, or especially if, they haven’t been able to mature enough to cope with you.
I think the culture point is extraordinarily valid.
I also feel it's important to note that locationally, I'm in one of the two best places in America (and arguably the world) to do what I do (and I don't have a work permit to be doing it abroad). And since LA has more disadvantages than advantages for me right now (which may change, but not in the forseeable future), for better or worse, physical distance between my family and I is largely illogical, as beneficial as it might be.
This is a purely tangental response to where this discussion has meandered to, but I felt it was worth noting, and better here that distracting from what I hope is some degree of clarity later (which, because of my evening plans, actually probably means tomorrow).
Yes, I realize that, to do what you want to do, you pretty much have to be in either NYC or LA. And, frankly, I wouldn't wish LA on anyone. I must say that I have, while reading your LJ, frequently thought that living far, far away from your parents for an extended period of time would do you both a world of good. For one thing, they might learn to appreciate you more for who you really are.
Each family dynamic can have limitations - and benefits. When I was first exposed to my wife's Chinese family, I thought the parents had way too much power and control over their kids - and I thought the lack of, what I considered to be, appropriate boundaries to be somewhat frightening. For example, my wife’s family would be overjoyed if we moved in with them. On the other hand, my father would be utterly appalled at that prospect. Over time, though, I have seen how some of the benefits of their closeness play out. I would be the very last person to suggest that my mother-in-law hasn’t treated me like a son. I am extremely grateful for all their warmth and caring. At the same time, my wife has seen some of the strengths of my dad's approach - which is a lot more relaxed.
A guy I read once observed that the filial piety that is part of Confucian cultures keeps the people in them from growing up. Worship your parents, he thought, and you'll stay a child forever. I mentioned this to my wife, fully expecting her to denounce it, and was surprised when she agreed with this caustic assessment wholeheartedly.
Dude, speaking as an out and out WASP with members of her family that could serve as the model for the film "Ordinary People", I think you're missing the point. As much as rach and ANYONE who's queer would like a reaction (hopefully positive) from their rents-she deserves and ACKNOWLEDGMENT of her admission at the VERY least. This isn't even ABOUT "guess who's coming to dinner" yet. This is about a very big admission being made. About needing at least some sign that even if not liked, supported or understood, that admission has been HEARD. Everyone needs to be heard by their parents if they have any kind of relationship with them at all. That's not living your life for their opinions, or basing your happiness/sanity on them-that's BASIC.
I want rm's parents to be respectful and cool. I want them to be supportive and I want them to be caring and intelligent. I don't want them to be merely "tolerant" - I want them to be happy. I want them to acknowledge her courage.
But, that said, I think we all need to reach a point where our parents' opinions - especially if they can't do the above - just don't matter all that much.
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No Lying...
Date: 2006-04-11 08:30 pm (UTC)Re: No Lying...
Date: 2006-04-11 08:50 pm (UTC)I don't necessarily think that being independent means that a parent's rejection or denial isn't going to hurt like hell on some level. Sometimes it is a big deal, and it doesn't matter if you're still influenced by your parents or not.
Culture
Date: 2006-04-11 09:00 pm (UTC)I realize that suffering your parents’ disapproval can hurt like hell. But age is also an issue to remember. I don’t expect teenagers to be able to handle parental rejection better than people in their 30s. Once you reach a certain age, you need to develop a certain amount of emotional distance from your parents and their opinions – especially if they are the kind of parents who are homophobic or are going to be negative about something like this.
I had a conversation once with my own mom about the different ways my brother and I dealt with parental approval. He feels, ironically given this thread, that my parents have rejected him because he is a fundamentalist Christian and GOP voter. He craves their approval and doesn’t feel like he gets it. I, on the other hand, don’t care that much either way and feel like I have their approval – maybe because they admire my independence. What I want for
Re: Culture
Date: 2006-04-11 09:24 pm (UTC)I also feel it's important to note that locationally, I'm in one of the two best places in America (and arguably the world) to do what I do (and I don't have a work permit to be doing it abroad). And since LA has more disadvantages than advantages for me right now (which may change, but not in the forseeable future), for better or worse, physical distance between my family and I is largely illogical, as beneficial as it might be.
This is a purely tangental response to where this discussion has meandered to, but I felt it was worth noting, and better here that distracting from what I hope is some degree of clarity later (which, because of my evening plans, actually probably means tomorrow).
Locations
Date: 2006-04-11 09:57 pm (UTC)Each family dynamic can have limitations - and benefits. When I was first exposed to my wife's Chinese family, I thought the parents had way too much power and control over their kids - and I thought the lack of, what I considered to be, appropriate boundaries to be somewhat frightening. For example, my wife’s family would be overjoyed if we moved in with them. On the other hand, my father would be utterly appalled at that prospect. Over time, though, I have seen how some of the benefits of their closeness play out. I would be the very last person to suggest that my mother-in-law hasn’t treated me like a son. I am extremely grateful for all their warmth and caring. At the same time, my wife has seen some of the strengths of my dad's approach - which is a lot more relaxed.
A guy I read once observed that the filial piety that is part of Confucian cultures keeps the people in them from growing up. Worship your parents, he thought, and you'll stay a child forever. I mentioned this to my wife, fully expecting her to denounce it, and was surprised when she agreed with this caustic assessment wholeheartedly.
Re: Culture
Date: 2006-04-12 12:56 am (UTC)Believe Me
Date: 2006-04-12 01:48 am (UTC)But, that said, I think we all need to reach a point where our parents' opinions - especially if they can't do the above - just don't matter all that much.