non-science

[rm]

Sorry, new and improved version. I left out some important options.

I realize this is entirely non-scientific and because LJ skews towards women even more unscientific for that. But I tend to think these little exercises still have their uses and least when it comes to reminding people about privilege (or I may turn out to be totally wrong).

ETA:

to answer some frequent questions:

1. Unwanted contact from a person you are in a relationship with should be read as a sexual overture (possibly entirely appropriate but you weren't in the mood) was made that you rejected, BUT the rejection was then not heeded in a fashion that you feel harmed you/violated your person/rights.

2. I know, I left out a choice for boss/coworker/clergy member/teacher/professional relationship/person in position of authority -- please put it in the acquaintance category. This was noticed too late to redo the poll and I'll note it when I do the results summary post.

3. If you are trans, genderqueer, etc. and want to answer in more than one category based on how you were presenting at the time, that's fine.

4. The way LJ shows the answers to this isn't actually that statistically interesting to what I'm trying to capture, and I will eventually make a post about some other things I'm seeing somewhat buried in the numbers.

5. Yes, your answers are viewable to everyone. There's a point to that too that will be discussed later as well.

6. Feel free to link to this in your own journal.

7. THANK YOU.


[Poll #1175760]

Comments

[tantra-cat.livejournal.com]

Did it save the previous results, or should we fill it out again?

[rm.livejournal.com]

Nope, had to redo the whole thing, so you'd need to fill out again.

[nickelchief.livejournal.com]

If it were an option, I would check the box for "co-worker."

[browneyedgirl65.livejournal.com]

Yes, also "teacher," "minister", etc -- but don't re-do!

[keever.livejournal.com]

Yes. My "acquaintance" response was in reference to a teacher.

[rm.livejournal.com]

You're right, I totally missed that one. Acquaitance category?

[schmidtybooger.livejournal.com]

Interesting, mind if I link to this?

[rm.livejournal.com]

Go ahead. The more answers the more useful.

[phaenix-ash.livejournal.com]

well now. that was depressing.

[browneyedgirl65.livejournal.com]

That's what I used, but the dynamic to pick out here is "abusing a position of authority."

[schmidtybooger.livejournal.com]

Excellent! I've been following the OSBP, but haven't commented both because it enrages me as someone who's worked very hard to overcome my PTSD and feelign that I need to be viewed with sexual desire in order to be desired at all and also because I'm pretty incoherent when on cold medication.

[delicatetbone.livejournal.com]

There are two main things that women never talk about, and yet so many of them have experienced it (the stats vary):
Being Raped
Having an Abortion

I find it incredibly depressing how much these two often very female-experiences are stigmatized in our society...swept under the rug and treated like unmentionables.

[cwoolard.livejournal.com]

Where's the tick box for "My experience with unwanted sexual contact isn't any of the internet's business"?

It's not personal. . .

[punzel.livejournal.com]

(laughing) Oh, how this references back to the question of who wore a button and who didn't! Was that intentional?

For the genderqueer. . .

[punzel.livejournal.com]

It would be far too complex a survey, but I think some of this hinges on what an affronter perceives your gender and/or sex to be.

[stupid-drawings.livejournal.com]

I took it as any sort of touching that I didn't want.
I used to get grabbed by the hips all the time by men I didn't know. Then I started wearing baggy shirts and glaring anyone down if they got too close to me. It still happens at conventions. Oh, and at Dragon con, I always get attack made out with at least once. It's because I'm friendly.

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

I..can't imagine either of those things happening to me.
I really don't know what I'd do.

[darkadaptedeye.livejournal.com]

One thing that I think gets missed in most of these polls, as well as most of these discussions, is a hetero-normative assumption that if "unwanted sexual advances/contact" is something generally done by men-to-women on the one side, whether or not the reflection is women-to-men on the other.

A lost issue is how often men are sexually harassed by other men, because of the massive stigma that either the male recipient was inviting it by "not being masculine enough", or that they're whining because they "weren't man enough" to deal with it themselves.

For every crude douchebag who stands on a corner going "hey baby hey baby" to every girl who walks by, he's probably following it with "hey faggot whatchu lookin' at. you wanna piece of this?" to the guys. Another form of this behavior regularly happens on sidewalks where guys will sometimes walk straight at another to make the other "chicken out" by having to walk around, lest they risk bumping and starting a confrontation.

If these things are suppressed from discussion, or left to the world of "shut up and deal with it yourself", one has to wonder at the number of things like non-reported rapes with male victims.


Or, umm... yeah... Anyway, sorry to hijack this this discussion into another tangent. It's probably better to just leave it with the old LJ gender slant that "all men suck". But one thing I will say is that often a bully is a bully, and an abuser is an abuser, and gender of the victim can be purely incidental. As we all know: just because something isn't reported or discussed, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I think the most interesting (and surprising) thing I am seeing in the polls so far is that the female respondents seem to have dealt with harrassment/assault from multiple sources with greater frequency than men, but that being a target of harassment/abuse at some point is universal.

[saltbox.livejournal.com]

is a hetero-normative assumption that if "unwanted sexual advances/contact" is something generally done by men-to-women on the one side

Not for me. It was a woman who raped me.

[stupid-drawings.livejournal.com]

It's usually just "Hey, NO! BAD BOY, NO TOUCH! Now go sit in the corner!"

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

I have a lot of bad programming ("If a man shows interest, you should feel gratitude and never say no.") - so the few times I've been pawed at, I tend to go very submissive. *eyeroll*

[darkadaptedeye.livejournal.com]

I will say upfront that I generally agree on most of your observations. Especially in regards to issues like this.

I've never doubted that women are, and can be, frequently targeted by harassers/abusers. Nor that the vast majority of the harassers/abusers are men. And that yes, often the harassers/abusers do so out of a sense of entitlement. My point is that whereas women are increasingly more open about discussing this, it's an issue that will be vastly underreported by men for at least another generation, if for no other reason, than because to admit to receiving any abuse/harassment would still be considered "not being man enough to take it".


Seriously. I'm 6'2", a former paratrooper, and pretty well tattooed. And I'll admit to the following because I'm comfortable in my own identity and preferences. But in the city I have to play the sidewalk game nearly every day with guys puffing up their chests and trying to walk straight at me, bumping into me, and then mumbling threats as we pass (and I'd prefer to not even touch the related race issues that goes with that). Or space issues in the subway. Additionally, for just a moment, if you think straight men can be pigs in the work place, just imagine how pushy some gay men can be to other men, when given positions of authority or further entitlement.

And if I have to go through this on a regular basis, I can only imagine what others have to deal with. But we almost never discuss this because to do so "wouldn't be manly".

I'm lucky that I choose to not consider myself a victim, and that I do have the power to stand up for myself or stand my ground if needed, and that I can even find a degree humour in analyzing the stupidity of men in general (myself included).

But yeah, many men are total shits and creepwads to other men on a regular basis, reported or discussed or not.

[stupid-drawings.livejournal.com]

I don't have that problem, but I sometimes can't tell if I like a guy, or if I just like that he likes me.

[nickelchief.livejournal.com]

yes, as it was in my case ... "acquaintance" doesn't quite line up with the situation, which was "perverted boss."