has everyone gone insane?

[rm]

Olbermann vs. Hannity reaches new levels of batshittery:

http://www.wowowow.com/politics/olbermann-pony-big-money-every-second-hannity-waterboarded-video-276465

via nancylebov

Comments

[rm.livejournal.com]

I am about 80%.

Some conservative blogger tried it and changed his mind; Hannity, having mouthed off carelessly about it should too.

And hey, money to charity, rad.

But there's something very squicky to me about two guys involved in the worst sort gender essentialism masculinity competition on national cable having this feud take this particular turn. Sooner or later someone is going to demand the other "be a real man" and I'm going to be unhappy.

[thornsilver]

Is it easier to just compare dick length?

[ferriludant.livejournal.com]

I don't see this as gender essentialistic masculinity competition (okay, caveat: I'm a man)....

I see it as essentially a confrontation between voices of two conflicting movements: On one hand, the educated, compassionate, passionate truthteller faction, and on the other, the "fuck the weak, I've got mine, jack - and who are you going to believe: me, or your lying eyes" faction.

Yeah, I'm in Olbermann's camp on this and on so much more.

[rm.livejournal.com]

It's the style of argumentation (which I fully admit to enjoying from Olbermann) that concerns me, but then I spend an inordinate time being a female person in an activity related to the honour of men of a certain class. And while even one of my fencing masters is female, I can't forget that not only would I not have the right to such arms in the times the work I study was actively used, I would not have even been considered to have a soul.

I use phrases like "man up" all the time and I try to weasel it and say that I can or that it's different or whatever, because sometimes I'm dressing/presenting as a man. But I do, in truth, intellectually believe that sort of discourse is toxic and enforcing of harmful norms and expectations on all genders.

I've heard Olbermann tell people to "be a man" on the program. I have cheered it in the moment and I have agreed with it in concept. But it's a language use I dislike, especially from someone so viciously articulate, and that particular tonal quality particularly tends to infuse the MSNBC vs. Fox drama, and I wish it wouldn't. It doesn't need to.

[ferriludant.livejournal.com]

Okay, completely granted: "be a man", and "man up" are *obviously* gender-normative phrases, and toxic in many ways.

But I didn't catch those phrases in the video. Perhaps I missed it. What I did see was Olbermann calling Hannity on a particularly egregious instance of crass, brutish, pseudo-populism, relating to a hugely important issue.

Incidentally, I wouldn't have been allowed to carry a sword in that period either, because my birth doesn't place me in the right class. There were *lots* of things which sucked back then.

But the swords were cool. :)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Nope, hasn't happened on this topic yet. Has happened between Olbermann and Hannity (and other MSNBC people) on other topics. I really, really don't want to see it here.

And yup on the swords. I wrote you this long comment and then was like "oh god, this is either boring or he already knows this" and deleted half of it.

[ferriludant.livejournal.com]

Heh. I deleted nearly twice what I ended up posting, too. For different reasons, I expect, but a thoughtful exchange is worthwhile, neh?

[marzipan-pig.livejournal.com]

Well, and life-threatening experiences can seriously emotionally scar people (or bring out existing emotional scars); I don't like stuff like this being used as a 'challenge'.

[rm.livejournal.com]

It also, even as it attempts to make people grok the practice of torture, somehow turns it into an extreme sport.

[ophymirage.livejournal.com]

While I am behind Keith, in hopes that Hannity might actually pull a Christopher Hitchens (the conservative reporter y'all are referring to), what I'm more worried about is that exactly the opposite will happen: Hannity will go through some modified form of waterboarding, come up at the end of it, and go "See, totally fine, THIS IS NOT TORTURE."

I don't want ANYONE to have the ability to reinforce the talking point that near-drowning a suspect somehow isn't torture because some braying jackass did it on TV.