and on another subject, but related to queer fetishization

[rm]

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/07/backlash-shmacklash-thats-torchwood-creator-russell-t-davies-reaction-to-the-outcry-over-the-death-of-gareth-david-lloyds.html#

I know many people in fandom are pissed about this interview.

But you know what? I fucking love it, because what I do think he's taking aim at in the thing about "go watch Supernatural" and the paragraph that follows on from there, I think he's talking about the fetishizaton of gay characters by parts of the audience and some of the nasty pop-psychology out there from people who really haven't walked even an inch in anyone's big gay shoes. Now sure, those people aren't all of fandom, and no one likes to be lumped in with clueless people they really disagree with, but so it goes.

For me, it's hat tip to RTD time. I don't always agree with his writing choices or his thoughts on writing, but I largely loved CoE, and am writing both Ianto is dead and Ianto isn't dead stuff, and think his remarks on this theme are right fucking on.

(and for the record, I don't think Ianto was fridged either. Jack's ongoing lovers are going to die, and, while he works for Torchwood, probably young and violently. If we expect to see omnisexual Jack having relationships with men, we have to expect those men to meet nasty ends in service to the dilemma of Jack's existence).

(and for the additional record, we can disagree and respect each other, because this is, among other things, about how we care about stories, and that's fucking lovely)

Comments

[kalichan.livejournal.com]

Also, are there really lots of folks who don't like Rhys? He's pretty well loved in most corners of fandom that I frequent.

[laughingacademy.livejournal.com]

So saith RTD. Here's the exact quote:

It’s funny because I know a lot of those people complain in the same breath that you get to see Gwen and Rhys being happy. But equally in the same breath, those same people say they don’t like Gwen and Rhys. So clearly they don’t like the happy characters. So why do they even want the gay people to be the happy characters? I don’t know because the happy characters aren’t the ones they are latching on to.

What I find funny is when RTD says "I think you’re being polite and part of what you're saying is that [Jack and Ianto] wasn’t a properly sexualized relationship … that we didn’t show enough details … I think that’s absolute nonsense," and in brackets the writer clarifies, "I wasn't referring to their sexual relationship, but their romantic/emotional one." It’s like the reporter is shrugging and telling us, "Look, the guy only hears what he wants to."

[starstealingirl.livejournal.com]

What I find funny is when RTD says "I think you’re being polite and part of what you're saying is that [Jack and Ianto] wasn’t a properly sexualized relationship … that we didn’t show enough details … I think that’s absolute nonsense," and in brackets the writer clarifies, "I wasn't referring to their sexual relationship, but their romantic/emotional one." It’s like the reporter is shrugging and telling us, "Look, the guy only hears what he wants to."

THIS. I think part of what annoys me so much about RTD's reaction in the interview about angry fans is that he does appear to only hear the objections that he can classify as irrational. It seems to me that the people on AfterElton.com and a lot of other queer online spaces are voicing similar objections, and not even being acknowledged. Granted, there seems to be an increased non-queer fandom presence on sites like AfterElton (which strikes me as invasive and appropriative, but that's a rant for another day), but certainly the objections to the way Ianto and his relationship with Jack were handled are not monolithic.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

I'm of two minds on "happy, domestic scenes of coupledom".

In the Gwen/Rhys case, I find it cute for about two minutes, and then I'm bored. I don't like to see them bickering, either, for the record. In CoE, yes, as a contrast with the messed-up events occurring, it was welcomed.

They're there in general as a device to contrast a relationship which is sort of standard and stable compared to the weirdness of aliens and Torchwood, but usually, I tend to like the UST-y couplings, the will-they-or-won't-they, the attraction.

I'm married, dude. I live in the suburbs. I can go to a Pampered Chef party and see domesticity. I sort of signed up for sexy adult sci-fi, not a soap.