You can still help the fight for marriage equality in Maine. If you are a Maine resident, you need to vote. In fact, if there is a local election in your area today, please be sure to vote. These elections tend to have very low turn-out and its how extremists get weird referendums passed and anti-science people onto school boards. It's always good to vote.
What makes an American? Or, let's watch people be anti-immigrant racists about the guy who just won the New York City Marathon.
So I have a question for you because obviously you have more stake in this than I do and even when I don't always hold the same opinion I find your take is very thought provoking.
I was listening to CNN this morning while getting ready to go to work and they mentioned that the new owners of the Cubs includes an openly gay woman making that a first.
I find myself torn on this. I think the openness about sexual preference is a good thing and has helped change minds and feelings over the years but at the same time I often feel for the person being identified so much by their sexual preference. No one would ever refer to me as the openly straight whatever. I can't decide how I feel and what I think the right feeling is. I just know it bothers me the same way it bothers me when the media identifies children who are adopted every single time. It makes it feel to me that it is still a less than. Less than biological children and less than straight.
Anyhow, slapping this here as it is sundries and your take would be really interesting to me.
No one has to refer to you, or anyone as an openly straight person because it is assumed that most people are straight. Additionally, no one has to come out as straight. When a woman introduces her boyfriend or her husband no one blinks or pauses or asks what she means. All of those things happen when I woman introduces her girlfriend or wife -- often even when the people she is introducing them to are queer-allies.
What defines a person? Our jobs? Often when we meet someone new and have nothing to say we ask what they do. I think this is a terrible measure of a person, few of us are fortunate enough to have jobs we love or jobs that define us in ways that we choose. Is defining someone based on who or how they love really worse than this? I can't think so at all.
The other day there was a big LJ drama with some woman who didn't think gay people existed 100 years ago. Existing and being visible is really, really important. Especially when a disproportionately high percentage of teen suicides and runaways are LGBTQ. It's important for gay people to be seen in the culture in every which way.
Finally, I think you stray into (unintentionally) dangerous category when saying "why does this have to be so front and center" since so many bigots use the "you can be gay, just don't shove it in my face" argument, but which they mean, don't put pictures of you and your partner on your desk at work or acknowledge them in any way. I know this is not what you mean, but it needs to be acknowledged since you did ask.
I agree with you, I think, about the adoption thing, about how that seems non-normalizing, but that's not a topic I have any personal frame of reference on and would defer to others about.
I agree about straying into the dangerous category and had thought of that. I don't at all have a problem when the person chooses to make the distinction. And I did not listen closely so possibly the owner had made public statements about the importance of her being the first openly gay MLB owner. That doesn't bother me at all.
I don't for the record think it is a bad thing to identify with your sexual orientation. I just grimace when it feels like the media or whomever is saying being gay is a one off. At the same time I don't want it to be ignored for exactly what you said, existing and being visible.
I think I am still stuck on how I feel. But as I suspected your answer is through provoking.
Just to clarify I have never and would never say "Why does it have to be so in your face." I don't think a person who chooses to tell everyone or anyone is doing anything I have any sort of issue with.
My issue is solely related to how the media identifies people. And whether I think that is a good or bad thing. And I think it is in fact both.
I get being straight is the default and that is why I would never be identified as such but it worries me when the media takes it upon themselves to identify everyone as gay if they are that somehow that is making it lesser than straight.
I don't want to come off as a jackass here because I get that I don't have the same stake in it. But at the same time I do have some stake in the perception and identification of sexual orientation by the media. I am raising a son who I want to grow up as either 1. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, gay man or 2. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, bisexual man or 3. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, transgendered man or 4. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, asexual man or 5. 2. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, straight man
I want all of these men to treat everyone with kindness and respect. I want him to not be influenced by the media as to what is normative and not. I am scared that he will end up fodder for the bigots or a bigot himself.
So I realize I don't get it right all the time. But it is why I ask these questions because I want to. I realize the privilege I get as a straight, white, woman. I understand that privilege shapes my opinions and feelings. I try very hard to reach beyond that so I can understand it.
Maybe you should visit http://www.GLAAD.org, which is all about LGBTQ and media representation and image. I don't know my way around their site that well, but they might have some position papers on this that are useful to your process on it.
And I do think you have a stake in this. We all have a stake in this. I just don't think you have a _risk_ in this, at least right now.
Thanks. I hope you understand I wasn't looking for you to be my tour guide on the issue. Rather I seriously find the things you say very thought provoking. I appreciate your answer.
Yup, it's all good. One of the other things that can be weird about this stuff, is as much as I do need to think about these issues, sometimes I just don't, since I'm often like "oh hey, one for our team!"
I think I used a bad example too. Because the reason it was news was because it was a first. I was pleased in the fact that I think every time we have a first it makes it a lot easier to have the next million. It just started me thinking it. I think it niggles at me more when it is "Gay man saves drowning child" -type stories. It always feels to me that it is just a SHOCK that someone who is gay could do something so good. Anyhow...thanks again!
One more data point for you. I now go nuts in articles when they mention someone's partner and I can't figure out if it's a gay or a straight partner. As a queer person, I still want the data apparently. Don't know if that's good or bad.
I tend to assume if they say partner they mean gay until proven otherwise. Apparently, it's a code word in my mind. Obviously, this means I'm pretty often wrong, but it's kind of comforting to be breaking the default occasionally. And, at least partner beats gay lover or "husband" in passive-aggressive inverted commas.
no subject
Date: 2009-11-03 04:17 pm (UTC)I was listening to CNN this morning while getting ready to go to work and they mentioned that the new owners of the Cubs includes an openly gay woman making that a first.
I find myself torn on this. I think the openness about sexual preference is a good thing and has helped change minds and feelings over the years but at the same time I often feel for the person being identified so much by their sexual preference. No one would ever refer to me as the openly straight whatever. I can't decide how I feel and what I think the right feeling is. I just know it bothers me the same way it bothers me when the media identifies children who are adopted every single time. It makes it feel to me that it is still a less than. Less than biological children and less than straight.
Anyhow, slapping this here as it is sundries and your take would be really interesting to me.
no subject
Date: 2009-11-03 04:26 pm (UTC)What defines a person? Our jobs? Often when we meet someone new and have nothing to say we ask what they do. I think this is a terrible measure of a person, few of us are fortunate enough to have jobs we love or jobs that define us in ways that we choose. Is defining someone based on who or how they love really worse than this? I can't think so at all.
The other day there was a big LJ drama with some woman who didn't think gay people existed 100 years ago. Existing and being visible is really, really important. Especially when a disproportionately high percentage of teen suicides and runaways are LGBTQ. It's important for gay people to be seen in the culture in every which way.
Finally, I think you stray into (unintentionally) dangerous category when saying "why does this have to be so front and center" since so many bigots use the "you can be gay, just don't shove it in my face" argument, but which they mean, don't put pictures of you and your partner on your desk at work or acknowledge them in any way. I know this is not what you mean, but it needs to be acknowledged since you did ask.
I agree with you, I think, about the adoption thing, about how that seems non-normalizing, but that's not a topic I have any personal frame of reference on and would defer to others about.
no subject
Date: 2009-11-03 04:37 pm (UTC)I don't for the record think it is a bad thing to identify with your sexual orientation. I just grimace when it feels like the media or whomever is saying being gay is a one off. At the same time I don't want it to be ignored for exactly what you said, existing and being visible.
I think I am still stuck on how I feel. But as I suspected your answer is through provoking.
no subject
Date: 2009-11-03 04:58 pm (UTC)My issue is solely related to how the media identifies people. And whether I think that is a good or bad thing. And I think it is in fact both.
I get being straight is the default and that is why I would never be identified as such but it worries me when the media takes it upon themselves to identify everyone as gay if they are that somehow that is making it lesser than straight.
I don't want to come off as a jackass here because I get that I don't have the same stake in it. But at the same time I do have some stake in the perception and identification of sexual orientation by the media. I am raising a son who I want to grow up as either 1. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, gay man or 2. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, bisexual man or 3. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, transgendered man or 4. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, asexual man or 5. 2. A happy, adjusted, well treated, granted all the civil rights as anyone is, loved, not abused, straight man
I want all of these men to treat everyone with kindness and respect. I want him to not be influenced by the media as to what is normative and not. I am scared that he will end up fodder for the bigots or a bigot himself.
So I realize I don't get it right all the time. But it is why I ask these questions because I want to. I realize the privilege I get as a straight, white, woman. I understand that privilege shapes my opinions and feelings. I try very hard to reach beyond that so I can understand it.
Anyhow, clearly I am defensive :)
K.
no subject
Date: 2009-11-03 05:01 pm (UTC)And I do think you have a stake in this. We all have a stake in this. I just don't think you have a _risk_ in this, at least right now.
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Date: 2009-11-03 08:37 pm (UTC)