Glee rant about queer teens and PDAs, again

[rm]

People,

As much as I, too, would like to think Kurt and Blaine kissed in that hall, at that moment:

- Blaine is still freaked out because when he last tried to go to a dance with another guy he got the crap beat out of him
- Kurt has just realized that things at McKinley are as bad as they ever were.
- The school is NOT a safe space, especially when the rest of it is empty -- what seems to give them privacy also puts them at risk if they run into someone else who might be feeling violent.


I cannot emphasize enough how complicated PDAs are for gay teens and gay people in general. I cannot emphasize enough that even though things may seem, and even be, perfectly safe they won't necessarily feel that way to people because of their own experiences with violence or being warned about violence or whatever.

I am 38-years-old. I live in New York City. I have let go of same-sex lovers' hands in public places within the last ten years when I wasn't entirely sure it was safe for us to be holding hands because I didn't know the neighborhood or it was late at night and drunk people make me more wary or whatever. And dudes, New York Fucking City, not a high school in Lima, Ohio.

This is huge mileage may vary territory for everyone. I'm totally okay with your "they kissed in the hall" head-cannon, but really worn out from the "Blaine sucks for not touching Kurt at x, y, or z moment" stuff and the "it's totally safe for them to be kissing!" assumptions and the "it must be evil FOX not giving us more gay kisses" theories.

This is complicated. This is complicated for gay people. This is complicated for US television. It's just complicated.

Please just let it be complicated.

And particularly for my straight readers, please, please, please take a moment to think about what it would be like to always be doing the math and then imagine what it would be like to do that math at 16. When you've already experienced assault. And you have one good thing and you're terrified that if you show affection for that thing in public, it will get it destroyed (and to be extremely fucking clear, by destroyed I mean murdered).

Being out and proud does not stop you from doing the math.

Comments

[sizequeen.livejournal.com]

Thanks you so much for this perspective. Glee fandom might be queer friendly, but the straight ones don't know what it's like to walk in these shoes.

[fyithoughtso.livejournal.com]

exactly. ^^^^^

rm, thank you so much for sharing this.

we need the reminder. i need the reminder, that it's complicated. so we can be a part of the trying-to-help-make-it-less-complicated, in whatever ways we can.

[dorei.livejournal.com]

My son's prom is next weekend. He waffled back and forth about asking his crush to be his date. He contemplated going stag. All of which I was fine with -- whether he took the boy or not, I didn't care. But, when he said he kinda wished he could wear a dress, I had to tell him no.

I love my son and I want him to be who he is. But I want him to be safe more. This is the same school that two years ago decided to put on a play, and then pull it without ever showing it, because the end scene showed two boys about to kiss just before the stage went dark. I told him if they are going to have a problem with THAT, does he honestly believe they won't bother him if he shows up, not just with another boy, but with him in a dress? They probably wouldn't let him in to the hotel where the prom was being held.

I wish I could have said yes to it all, and taken him out to get a dress rather than telling him to wait until he's out of school.

[saharafic.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying this. I do the math too. And I've never been assaulted or physically threatened, but I always worry.

[heavenscalyx.livejournal.com]

How do people not get this?

[trinker.livejournal.com]

For the same reason that they believe since they themselves are "colorblind" that the whole damned world is "postracial". Privilege is about seeing oneself as an individual first, foremost, and perhaps not as a member of a group at all. Disprivilege is being aware of the boxes one is shoved into.

Because they don't look at the very real gay people in their worlds, and talk to them. Because the only gay people they know are the slash characters in their heads, in a slash-friendly, happy jolly kumbaya queer accepting AU - so if it's *canon*...

[yarram.livejournal.com]

"Being out and proud does not stop you from doing the math."

A-to the fucking-MEN!

[ciel-vert.livejournal.com]

This post says a lot of things that I think others take too much for granted. Well, said all of it.

[wordplay.livejournal.com]

I think this is exactly what I was trying to get at in my throwaway comment over on b_d - it was so uncomfortable to see them physically far apart, and what I was wondering is if that was SUPPOSED to be what I was feeling (narrative intention of, look, they can't) or just some kind of... personal artifact, either shipper goggles or privilege or just a byproduct of my own ridiculous tendency toward physical affection.

It makes me want to go back and watch the scene where Kurt asks him out again, though, because I want to see the look on Blaine's face when Kurt tells him to take his hand across the table.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Word, I'm actually dying to see that scene again too.

I'm also interested in this Blaine backstory, because I sort of got the impression he was all "Oh, things at my old school weren't as bad for me as they are for you at McKinley" when he first meets Kurt and stuff, and I'm like... Blaine what is going on in your skull?

And yeah, they have such amazing chemistry, it feels completely weird when they are not touching, because it reads awkwardly and like they're expending lots of energy on not touching. Which sucks. But that's what happens. The wanting to touch energy doesn't go away. It just sits there and makes you AWKWARD. I think the show is doing a great job with this (although I think it's on the performances more than the writing that's making that particular issue work), but I think it's like... a lot of straight viewers can see something's wrong there, but can't necessarily see what the wrong thing is... or something?

[shesingsnow.livejournal.com]

I get the impression that the script is leading Karofsky to a suicide moment. I don't know if US television is going to be able to handle that. The truth, I mean. I wonder.

I recently showed the movie Big Eden to a group of about ten people - wide variety of people: young, old, gay, straight, etc.

And after the movie was done, we talked about the acceptance level for gay characters. And one woman objected to authenticity of the scene where the main character couldn't come out to his grandfather, despite the total atmosphere of love and support. They gay people, myself included, in the room pointed out how the scene was one of the most authentic in the movie - and the straight people weren't seeing it. And the best we could get to was to agree that it was complicated.

[gina-r-snape.livejournal.com]

Oh I really hope they don't go that route, but I could easily see it happening.

Karofsky's is turning out to be a truly fantastic storyline.

[shesingsnow.livejournal.com]

I am really, really glad that they tackled the subject of being practical in the face of danger -

[nevercheshire.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. Glee is complicated, surreal yet Kurt's story seems to be the most realistic of the cast. I'm glad that realism carries over to the physical distance between them. I thought the affection shown between them was quite clear.



I've also decided Brittany is my favorite because she is so much like Capt. Jack (I'll just go and dance with everyones dates)

[rm.livejournal.com]

OMG, I need Brittany/Jack crossover fic like burning now.

[gina-r-snape.livejournal.com]

I have walked in these shoes, like you, in NYC, in the last 10 years. Your points are salient and important.

But I simply would have been more emotionally satisfied if Blaine and Kurt (or Brittany and Santana who were in the privacy of a classroom) had kissed at some point.

[skelody.livejournal.com]

That's a good canon-only analysis, but when considering the attitudes of content producers, it becomes more important to consider the motivations behind their choices. Are there lesbians in this episode because the writers recognize that gay women exist, or because they want to titillate heterosexual men? Is this masculine male character expressing his distaste at feminine things because they want to critique femme-hate, or because they think "male" and "feminine" are so contradictory that it's funny? Are the male couple not-engaging in PDA because it's only realistic, or because they don't want to push their luck with the gay smoochies?

I don't watch Glee, I know very little about it and have no investment in these characters. Maybe there are scads of scenes where queer characters make out in private, which would definitely suggest public-standoffishness-due-to-realism. I wouldn't know! But with just this information I think it is important to examine the situation with a broader view.

/incoherent

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

Wait....*Wait*

People are *making up an AU in which Blaine and Kurt kiss in that moment after Kurt runs out of the gym*???

Oh, Gleeks....

That is so NOT what that scene was about. Not even remotely. Ghods are these people so determined to make Blaine and Kurt into mating zoo animals that they don't even pay attention to the scene itself??

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

Also? This is vaguely stirring up from when we had to do the "poly math" back in the day when one of our foursome was an active-duty military officer.

Please just let it be complicated.

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

This. Yes. Thank you.

[deconglee.livejournal.com]

In my headcanon, a kiss happened after the discussion about the kilt. Maybe in a hallway at the Hummel residence, where the worst thing that could happen is another talk from Burt. :) Blaine did look appropriately chastened as Kurt walked out of the room. So, in my head, he followed.

But your post brings me back -- waaaay back -- to when we told my inlaws we were getting married. They had a lot of valid points to make about marriage, and their own struggles, but they also added that they never saw us being affectionate. I almost jumped over the table at them.

When we were first dating, my wife wasn't really out. So, we were just friends hanging around. And I think a lot of people knew, but some didn't want to. And we were at a party in a local home where there was a chair shortage. So she sat on my knee (all the other chairs were similarly occupied by two girls). Her aunt (who knew) went mental. Cried, screamed, outed us to everyone.

You learn quickly that physical affection is dangerous, explosive. I guess if we could have been, we'd have been all over each other. But it just wasn't possible.

[aisurucheza.livejournal.com]

As much as I would have loved for at least a hug during some scenes, I always catch myself and remember that this is McKinley...this is Ohio...this is Not the safest place for them to be affectionate, even if things look like they've improved. Did I think they were going to kiss after "Somewhere Only We Know"? For a split second, yes I did, cause the moment was just that emotional and it seemed like they really wanted to. But I understood why they didn't. I wish more fans would take this into account.

And what you say here rings very true.

Two years ago, when I was in relationship with this girl I'm still in love with... whenever we were out in public (whether just us or with friends who both knew and didn't know about us) she would be so afraid to hold my hand. She wouldn't let me even make the smallest gesture of physical affection. Even if it was something I would do to all my friends. She was so paranoid and afraid of what other people thought and what they would do, that she would never do anything in public. But when were at home, it would be another story.

Did it upset me at times? Yes, cause I wanted her to stop being so worried about other people's opinion. I wanted to proudly hold hands with my girlfriend in the street. I wanted to be just as affectionate as my friends seemed to be. But it made her uncomfortable, so I didn't protest. It sucks so bad wanting nothing more than to be with somebody, wanting to touch them but not being allowed to.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Seeing people leap around screaming for more PDAs for 2 teenaged gay men gives me a headache. I'm not even a teen and I'm terrified of PDAs, I daren't hold my husband's hand in public, let alone a kiss or full on make out session. And I'm out (I'm not exactly great at closeting anyway), very out and proud and largely happy - but that doesn't mean I disregard my own safety or discount the risk. I know plenty of straight people who, even if they're happy to accept the concept of my being gay, will still freak out if they see me kiss - and these are people who I trust to an extent. Random strangers? Hell no.

The idea that gay teens should get it on with impunity for the sake of the fans to drool is just so grossly privileged and headache making

It's not safe for us, and it's not going to be for a long time. You can't just discount that because the hawt m/m action is soooooo droolworthy

[calanthe-b.livejournal.com]

Thank you for writing this post.

(frozen)

[eatsoylentgreen.livejournal.com]

this is much how I feel about slutty clothes and rape

(frozen)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Less relevant than you think and not acceptable. I'm freezing this thread.

[sqwook.livejournal.com]

Thank you for writing this post.

And also thank you for this:
"And yeah, they have such amazing chemistry, it feels completely weird when they are not touching, because it reads awkwardly and like they're expending lots of energy on not touching. Which sucks. But that's what happens."

[brilliant-snark.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this post. The ep last night brought up a lot of stuff, personally.

I'm late to the party. And I'm doing the math. And I can't imagine having had to deal with that at 16.

Let it be complicated, because that is what it is. Whether we like it or not.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I loved the episode. It made me very happy. I felt really shaky and weird afterward though, which is part of why this got written.

[jinian.livejournal.com]

I am not caught up on Glee, I admit, but I wanted to say that being able to touch in public was one of the best things with my recent girlfriend, because it was so fragile but we could do it here and now when so often I haven't been able to. She never really got that, because of her social group or maybe just being younger, so I wonder if even some queer fans are not getting that Kurt and Blaine are in actual jeopardy and need to be careful as hell. We got vitriol and weird looks occasionally, but getting killed wasn't something she's ever had to consider. (Admittedly queer girls are somehow invisible, but still.)

[be-a-rebel.livejournal.com]

I completely agree so hard on this. I'm bi and only one person in my RL life knows because I live in a homophobic country where I would be beaten to literal death if anyone found out. I have to flinch through homophobia of extreme levels every single day and I fight and I argue but I go through it, every day, and I'm absolutely sure that if I ever got out of my country, and did end up dating a girl, I would have trouble with public affection because the terror of the things I've heard people say would never fade, and I'd constantly be afraid of getting hurt.

Also, I'm liking the way Glee is handling it. I like that it's real and not some perfect fairy tale ending for the boys, because honestly? Fairy tales don't exist.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Because I'm that asshole that always wants to have something excellent to say, I've been staring at this comment on and off since you made it. But the reality is that I don't have anything excellent to say.

I am, however, glad that you are able to be out to yourself and have at least that one person to confide in. I'm also glad we get to talk to you on the Internet and for the reminder that for all the shit we're consumed with in the US in terms of equal rights, none of us are safe until all of us are safe.

Thank you.

[katyakoshka.livejournal.com]

I referred to this post in a recent one of mine because it indirectly called me on some derailing I had done (on rules and the breaking thereof in US society). Just an FYI, as well as a "Brava" on a clear, unambiguous post.

[austengirl.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen this episode yet, but I totally hear you on doing the math. I was dating a girl (briefly) back when I still lived in Pittsburgh, and while she wanted to hold hands and then some, I wasn't out and I just wasn't wanting to deal with any potential abuse hurled in our direction. In retrospect I wish I'd been braver, but my long ago high school boyfriend (who came out in college) has been harassed by local cops when parked with a guy so I know it does still happen in Pittsburgh, unfortunately.