Waters of Mars

[rm]

"You're only 27-years-old."

Yes, Torchwood fans, that's when I started crying. Tell me I wasn't alone.

"Oh this bloody job never gave me a chance." Oh HAI THERE TORCHWOOD REFERENCE.

...

Oh CRAZY CRAZY TEN HUBRIS. NOW YOU ARE THE MASTER's PERFECT BOYFRIEND.

Also, seriously... CoE parallels. Once again Doctor Who making what happened there much, much easier to live with, because it provides the act and the context for Jack's actions and the consequences of him having chosen differently. And wow, the Doctor so can't deal with Jack because he hates himself.

I love the degree to which we feel the Doctor really needs to regenerate soon, because he's become dangerous.

There are so many echoes of so many weird things in here... including the Ood.

Also, who else is utterly, completely, totally convinced, like from the second the Doctor start monologue-ing about about how Adelaide inspires her daughter that Jack is absolutely, definitely, descended from her.

Hey, close up of the TARDIS central column -- that's a goddamn film spool in the middle moving up and down. HOW GREAT IS THAT AS META? FUCK ME THIS SHOW IS RAD.

Oh, Doctor, you've done a very bad thing.

Also, hello, channeling Nine. That's some rad acting there, DT.

I know cannon will never tell us but is this why the Doctor couldn't step in re: CoE or is CoE why he went and did something dumb like this or did CoE happen because he did this shit? Because I really feel like while TW addresses Doctor Who explicitly, Doctor Who can only address Torchwood implicitly, and IT'S RIGHT HERE, KIDS.

Ood! I called it, Ood! (they really are the best fucking thing the new series has brought us). Ood!

Also, not only had Jack better be there for the regeneration, I have to say, that while we'll never (we hope) get a permanent Doctor death in canon, in fanon, my feeling after this episode is that Jack _must_ be there when the Doctor does finally truly die, because it is the only way to resolve the control/comfort/time dramarama shit between them.

OH MY FUCKING GOD, PEOPLE THIS IS WHY I WATCH THIS SHOW.

Comments

[thunderemerald.livejournal.com]

THIS! ALL THIS AND MORE! OMG!

The entire time I was watching, I went back and forth between CAPSLOCK FLAILYHANDS and utter... utter... silence.

Now I want to rewatch CoE. And then I want to read Ten/Jack and Ten/Master porn for the rest of my life. With some plot in, sometimes. Also, meta. I want meta.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I need to go back and rewrite my meta about how Jack is barred from heroism by his immorality as contextualized by this episode, because OMG, these shows when put together are so smart and independently, are good yarns but don't do even a fraction of what they do echoing off each other.

Also, sort of want slash between the guy who built the robot and the second in commend before everything went bad.

[torenheksje.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you got to see this. I was stunned thinking how the Doctor always treated Jack like a monster because he *can* walk away, when in fact it's the Doctor himself who is standing in front of the Giant Maw of MonsterMadness because he *can't*. And they both pay a terrible price.

I canNOT wait for December.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

I canNOT wait for December.

That's certainly true. Whatever other opinions people may have on WoM, End of Time looks to be epic. Plus! Simm!Master with some strange timerifty thing happening to him? Lucy? Wilf & Donna? I see no bad here.

[count-to-seven.livejournal.com]

I have so many thoughts about this that I've pretty much spent the day pacing my house.

[afterthree.livejournal.com]

Hey, close up of the TARDIS central column -- that's a goddamn film spool in the middle moving up and down. HOW GREAT IS THAT AS META? FUCK ME THIS SHOW IS RAD.

WHOA. I didn't notice this but I just went back and checked the shot. COOL! Thanks for pointing that out!

[elionwyr.livejournal.com]

drool drool drool drool

[dr-is-in.livejournal.com]

If you look very closely.....the Bowie Base main control center? Is the Hub set redressed. Compare images of them looking towards the round doorway.

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

Yes. All of this!

We're doing a family roundtable review tonight.

[gina-r-snape.livejournal.com]

I just find it soooo funny that your entire orientation to the show has Jack and Torchwood at the center.

I loved watching Tennant go from "I'm outta here" to "I can't do anything" to "I'm the master of the universe" to "oh nooooooes" all in one episode. It's like he completely skipped over the step of reasonable responsibility for monitoring the laws of time.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I got into Doctor Who through Torchwood, mostly.

Prior the only DW ep I'd seen was The Satan Pit, which I loved, but had no context for.

Combined, these two things probably show you how I orient to the Whoniverse in a pretty disturbing way.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

I have not watched either since I left my last appt and satellite service. Apparently I've got much catching up to do.

Anyone seen my eyepatch?

[therealycats.livejournal.com]

Also, who else is utterly, completely, totally convinced, like from the second the Doctor start monologue-ing about about how Adelaide inspires her daughter that Jack is absolutely, definitely, descended from her.

That thought didn't even cross my mind, honestly, although I did think there was some hint to some other connection with the 'verse. May I ask what specifically in his speech brought Jack to mind? (I've only watched it once so far; I'll need to watch it again anyway because I really do think it was one of DT's best performances). I think my only real complaint with this one is how quickly the Doctor seemed to go from his feelings of despair to "I am the Doctor Victorious, mwahahaha, let me show you my screwdriver and how much bigger it is than yours!" I mean he really turned into a complete dick at that point, and it was too sudden a leap. It would have made sense had it been more gradual, but his, what I've always interpreted as, reverence for the laws of Time switching so suddenly to his declaration that he is now the master of it (pun not intended...much)...god complex much? And again, if there hadn't been so much of him explaining how it's not right for anyone to have that much power to where he ended...

But anyway, overall a brilliant episode; much better than Planet of the Dead.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Pure, random, gut feeling. It's Jack or River Song. It felt like Jack to me. Wow, the more I talk, the crazier this answer gets. Uh, yeah.

[marchek.livejournal.com]

Overall I liked it. I thought the pacing at the beginning was off and I was worried that it was just going to be the Fires of Pompeii all over again but I really liked it in the end. I loved the crazy ten hubris and I am really excited about the next special. Maybe this I why I love the Master.
I am SO mad that I'm not going to be in town for the Jan 3rd "Farewell to Ten" DWNY party.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Oh jesus, neither am I. CRUISE.

[better-late24.livejournal.com]

I hear you on the CoE parallels...it kind of gives me a whole new perspective on it. Still don't like it, but it makes more sense in the universe given this.

This was Ten as I've never seen him, but the completely logical evolution.

And God, was him sitting there LISTENING and not interfering not completely heartbreaking? I felt this episode way more than I normally feel Doctor Who.

Bleh, I lack coherence because there are TOO MANY THOUGHTS.

[fmanalyst.livejournal.com]

The thing that struck me was how completely skull-like he looked while walking in the space suit before he went back to try to save them. I was even reminded of the vashta nerada in the space suits.

[raaven.livejournal.com]

Yes! This!!

[tree00faery.livejournal.com]

I literally just finished watching it, so I'm kind of incoherent. The first time I see anything (but especially DW), I fail utterly at noticing references, details, foreshadowing, and the like. I'm mostly going "eeek omg FLAIL". I probably need to watch it again to form a better opinion of the episode. Right now I'm still in 'Awww, TEN! You break my heart so bad' mode. Presumably more thoughts will come later. Then again, I thought that about CoE too, and I've still not re-watched it (though I do have more solid opinions about it, I'm still mostly feeling the heartbreak).

I do think the episode was kind of clunky in terms of pacing and writing occasionally... But David Tennant made all of that not matter.

[firefly124.livejournal.com]

Yes. This. Amazing.

And oh yes, I could see Jack being descended from Adelaide. Very much so.

[dskasak.livejournal.com]

I think that Jack will be around in the two-parter The End Of Time, though I'll honestly be more excited to see Donna make an appearance in the finale. As much as I didn't care for how Martha Jones' character was ignored on the show, Donna Noble deserved a far better send-off than what she received. Let's hope that there are some amends made here.

After watching Nine chastise Rose for wanting to meet her father in "Father's Day," all while proclaiming how there are laws that cannot be broken and how some points in time are fixed, I didn't think I would see the Doctor so blatantly disregard his own advice. Nor did I expect him to fully act out in such an arrogant manner towards the people whom he "helped," or that these same people would show fear and revulsion toward the Doctor's being and words. Honestly, I am surprised that fear isn't a more common reaction to the Doctor.

As for the darker characteristics of Ten, I should point out that Seven's run with Ace saw him transform from a Patrick Troughton-wannabe to that of a devious trickster...and then there's the Valeyard, whom I now believe may be more of the Doctor's logical end than beforehand.

[chaos-by-design.livejournal.com]

Thinking about WoM, Adelaide's speech to the Doctor at the end before she goes in to kill herself totally reminds me of what Donna said to the Doctor at the end of Runaway Bride about how he needs someone to stop him. So true.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought the same. Especially now that we know what would have happened if she hadn't stopped him (Turn Left).

Gary http://GarySaid.com/

[malle-babbe.livejournal.com]

I loved finally seeing the hints of hubris that we saw in the 2005 Xmas special and "Human Nature / The Family of Blood" finally getting addressed in WofM. Ten going from not wanting to get involved to "I'M THE GOD!" only to be cut down by the will of a human who refused to be awed by him (as most humans do) was amazing drama.

I wonder if in "The End of Time" will Ten finally get called out for getting Harriet Jones kicked out office. Considering the two Prime Ministers we have seen since, I think some lapel-grabbing and shaking is in order.

While this was darker than "The Next Doctor" and "Planet of the Dead", for me the mood seemed to "work" better than it did in CoE. While I appreciate Davies taking the premise of Torchwood seriously (namely how truly perilous it would be for Earth to be wide open to contact with more powerful and not necessarily friendly aliens), at the end I felt that RTD was trying a bit too hard. I felt punched in the kidneys afterward and was in a bad funk for weeks afterward; a show has NEVER affected me like that. I alternated between being sad over the end of CoE, and being pissed at myself for being upset over a TV show.

Anyway, with Waters of Mars I got the feeling that issues that have been raised about Ten's nature are finally getting addressed.

[amberite.livejournal.com]

I wonder if in "The End of Time" will Ten finally get called out for getting Harriet Jones kicked out office. Considering the two Prime Ministers we have seen since, I think some lapel-grabbing and shaking is in order.

YES PLS. I do feel like this episode at least answered one of the questions that's been hanging there: that action becomes less murky when we see that it's the first step down the path to this.

[penguineggs.livejournal.com]

I have to say I went into this one with dread, having seen the trailers and taken away the idea that it was another case of RTD being about to air his Issues with older women generally and with women in positions of authority in particular. Every time Ten comes out with his stuff about guns it rubs me up the wrong way anyway (double genocidaires don't get to do pointless self-righteousness about the choice of weapon of their opponents, in my view, and anyway, bringing off a genocide single-handed with a handgun would be quite a feat) and then when we got the immediate flash to Brookes' obituary I found myself yelling at the screen, "Fucking Finchley! You just had to have her born in Finchley, didn't you, RTD?"

After that, though, matters improved no end; the climactic moment Adelaide looked at Ten with sheer, naked contempt made up for three seasons of Ten getting away with murder and mind-wiping and apparently having authorial approval to do it. I have to say, I'd still have been happier if Adelaide had shot the Doctor (on stun) and hijacked the TARDIS so things could play out properly, but she did the best she could in the circumstances: I particularly liked the fact that Ten said in the middle of the crisis, "If I have to fight you as well, I will" and she just made no response and went on arming the reactor. And he did fight her, and she won. Harriet Jones is avenged at last (though I'm waiting for the Christmas specials to see if Donna gets her apology, too).

[sefkhet.livejournal.com]

"You're only 27 years old..."

GOD YES.

I know cannon will never tell us but is this why the Doctor couldn't step in re: CoE or is CoE why he went and did something dumb like this or did CoE happen because he did this shit?

[Excuse me for rambling in your LJ, but it is patently obvious that I haven't thought about much else since Sunday.]

In my head, something happened on Day Three when they were stealing Porsches and waiting tables and whatnot. The Tardis materialised on a London street and the Doctor ran smack into Ianto -- and he's known who Ianto Jones is since *long* before he turned up on the Tardis monitors in Journey's End. When he worked out what he'd turned up in the middle of, the Doctor told Ianto that he was sorry but he had to go, but that when Jack goes to Thames House, Ianto *has* to be with him, he can't let Jack talk him into staying behind and being safe, and if he goes to Thames House with Jack, everything will be all right. Ianto was perfectly Ianto, and it wasn't that he was unwilling to accept that, but he had to ask, because he already knew, if he was going to die.

That led to the Doctor telling him that history says that Ianto Jones died on September 13th 2009, and that it has to happen, because when he dies, that's the catalyst for everything -- for the world being saved from the 456, for Gwen Cooper taking over Torchwood and rebuilding it into something *new*, for Jack Harkness leaving the planet for a time and coming back to help Earth take its place in a galactic civilisation, for the stories that Mica Davies hears about her Uncle Ianto that will eventually lead to her going to Liverpool to build the shuttle that will take Adelaide Brooke to Mars.

And Ianto thanked the Doctor, made him promise to find Jack and look after him once it was all over, and set his shoulders and walked off to stand beside Jack and do what needed to do, knowing that his death was not going to be for nothing.

[malle-babbe.livejournal.com]

This! This so very much!

[shadings.livejournal.com]

Oh god, YES. Jack is TOTALLY descended from Adelaide. That makes the whole verse just that much more wonderful and intricate for me. Thanks for that one. (:

[queenfanfiction.livejournal.com]

You weren't alone, I cried at the 27 year old line AND I totally think CJH is descended from CAB :D (they're even both captains, O MY)

[svollga.livejournal.com]

from the second the Doctor start monologue-ing about about how Adelaide inspires her daughter that Jack is absolutely, definitely, descended from her.

Oh, hell. I never thought about it, but now I can't stop thinking.
I have this femslash story planned, about Jenny and Alice Carter and father figure problems, and now I know who they will be meeting and why.

Waters of Mars was absolutely victorious.

Hmmm

[siege-ofcahoots.livejournal.com]

Still think RTD is an over weening self absorbed idiot but I will hold off on storytelling opinion until Ten's end.

[fragiletender.livejournal.com]

The major feeling I was left with towards the end is that this is WHY The Doctor needs human companions. He needs that grounding, that constant presence of mortality because without it he slips too easily into time madness (remember the episode with the Time Lord children staring into the vortex of time or whatever it was).