Well, this is a disaster.

[rm]

I joke, a lot, that no one wants to be famous or successful because they're well-adjusted. "None of us, you know, got enough love in our childhoods," I say.

I just figured out why the whole fucking marriage equality makes me so completely aggravated and stressed despite the fact that I'm actually pretty conflicted on the role marriage has both in gay culture and in turning couples of any type from "people in love" into "people obsessed with shoulds." (Obviously this whole mess doesn't do poly and plural marriages any favors either, since one of the main arguments seems to be "we're just gay, we don't fuck dogs or have lots of wives" -- which hello, is two types of totally different Not Okay Statements to Have to Make rolled into one asinine sentence).

I should have been done losing popularity contests in eighth grade. We all should have been done holding in eight grade.

Fuck you, Maine

Fuck you, bigots.

I don't want to catastrophize here, but the Maine situation is scary. Because it allows the bigots to think they have momentum, to think they are right, to think that we are abominations. That's one of those very funny words until it's applied to you.

I'm very scared of the implications of this. I know what anti-gay violence looks like first hand, and I am very concerned we're about to have a lot of it, and not just in Maine. I'm very concerned about what happens after the Obama years, when the backlash puts the bigots back in office right at the top. I'm very scared of the hate crimes law getting repealed; of my gay friends who have been able to marry being in danger because they are down on government paper as officially gay.

If you think I'm paranoid, think back to most of the events leading into and happening during the Bush administration. Right, now if you had called any of that shit back during the Clinton years, people would have said you were paranoid and worse. Yeah... well.... shit.

Comments

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

GRR.

I think the country is just split down the middle ideologically. We've seen it in the most recent elections and that's just where it is in terms of demographics.

I'm not sure why states are even voting on this. It's not a decision like spending tax dollars on some project... it's a civil rights issue and should be addressed in the same way the Civil Rights Acts have been put forth.

It could be argued that marriage rights are state-level issues, but school segregation was, too...afaik.

ETA: AND there are federal-level ramifications to marital status, like Social Security benefits for spouses, etc.


Screw this. This is not a local/state issue any more than DADT is.

[toujours-nigel.livejournal.com]

oh good gods. i've been wondering what would happen. i hope it doesn't get very bad for y'all.

[ciel-vert.livejournal.com]

What got to me was hearing a clip of the "victory" speech on NPR this morning, and the guy was saying it was a victory for the "silent majority". I had several thoughts at once:

1. A majority, by its definition, is never silent.
2. Your majority, in particular, is EXTREMELY NOT silent.
3. The point of the courts is to protect the silent MINORITY.
4. And where the fuck are the courts, why doesn't anyone understand the setup of our government at all, and when the fuck are people going to GET A FUCKING CLUE THAT THIS IS WRONG?

Okay, so my thoughts got jumbled up with my rage and disappointment and fear at the end there, but I think you get my drift. I'm very scared too. I just... why haven't we moved on yet? :(

(Icon directed at Maine, not you.)

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

ARGH.

[5251962.livejournal.com]

I do not think you are paranoid at all- the implications of this, well, it's pretty scary. This is a validation, a win, so to speak and man, you have people who are already quaffing the kool aid hard core- to be validified? Yeah, no good. It could validify a whole mess of behaviors in the eyes of those who are misguided and really feel they are RIGHT. I mean, sre, not eveyone who is against gay rights wll go t violence- but they are so fucking vocal. And, well, look what happened with George Tiller- not everyone who was against abortion pulled the trigger- but they filled the head of the man who did with the idea that it would be ok.

Also, thank you for what you said about the argument. It's probably the first time I've ever seen anyone point that out, and I do appreciate that.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

I don't want to paint the devil on the wall, but I do agree that this could be a catalyst for anti-gay violence. I hope that the recent victories in hate crime law will either prevent it, or put a quick stop to it should it start to happen.

What I don't understand is why these things are not challenged as a separation of church and state basis. At the heart of it marriage is a religious affair - and the state only got involved to make money off of the deal ( well ok that may be overly simplistic .... blood testing , registration , etc... ok ok but still ... ).

If the objection against gay marriage is based on religious belief ( and that's the majority of what I hear ) then it should be a matter of religion and not politics/voting. I think this could be a gateway for greater enforcement of separation of church and state. I personally do not want the laws I live under dictated by any one , or for that matter any religion.

Aside, when you say " people obsessed with shoulds " do you mean shoulds as in society says you should ( get married ) or should as in you should in order to secure legal rights ( living wills, property , etc ..) ?

I certainly do not think that my friends , and family-of-choice are abominations ... I think that people who use the legal system to forward their religious beliefs on others are the abominations.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of pretty unhappy married people who got married because they should and then had kids or bought a house or whatever all because of "should" without thinking about their actual desires. So I think the fetishization of marriage in our culture is pretty toxic for everyone.

[annlarimer.livejournal.com]

Word. I know plenty of happily married people, but I've seen the damage that "should" can do, even in my own family.

Everybody should have the option to marry, but nobody should have to.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

I think that in order to make that a reality, we need to reverse the damage / expectations that both the media and society have put on people to marry. If we could get more people to unplug and think for themselves I think they would manage to do ok.

[annlarimer.livejournal.com]

What you said.

[blackbird-song.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

[delchi.livejournal.com]

Agreed. This is why I think it's wrong to force people into marriage in order to secure specific rights. Sure, there are ' civil unions ' b ut society in general does not push you towards those.

Also I think that the whole financial market around marriage is pretty disgusting. Starting with the whole DeBeers suggestion that the ring should cost " about 3 months salary ", all the way to people spending outrageous amounts of money on the ceremony, and then ending up living in a shoebox under a bridge.

[ciel-vert.livejournal.com]

This is why I think it's wrong to force people into marriage in order to secure specific rights.

This this this, a million times. And that is the root of the problem. :\

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of this.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

Also I think that the whole financial market around marriage is pretty disgusting.

That's definitely true.

[5251962.livejournal.com]

Again, agreed. The commenter above me nailed it- you're so right.

[cozzene.livejournal.com]

Perhaps someone will link to it--my Google-greatness is failing me right now--but I think that's part of the premise of the court case that has been filed that may go to the Supreme Court.

[rm.livejournal.com]

It's a case most people expect to fail. And honestly we're better off with the Supreme Court not taking it up than taking it and making an anti-gay ruling that it will take decades to undo.

[cozzene.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty optimistic after reading a lot about the attorneys as well as their argument. The lead attorney is a pitbull when it comes to fighting to keep gov't out of people's lives. He also seems to have quite the personal history of defending the underdog.

[l33tminion]

we're better off with the Supreme Court not taking it up than taking it and making an anti-gay ruling that it will take decades to undo

While I agree that it's possible a gay-marriage case reaching the court now would lead to the court ruling against, I don't necessarily buy that would slow overall progress more than not pushing such a case in the first place. I'm certainly not confident enough to tell someone who wants to be a plaintiff in such a case to not pursue every legal recourse available to them.

[tree00faery.livejournal.com]

I'm scared too. And also sad, upset, disappointed, worried, the lot. Also sick. I was contemplating getting up and muddling through the day with lots of cough drops and advil and tissues. Then I checked the news, and decided to go back to bed.

[cozzene.livejournal.com]

I cannot describe the anger that is sloshing about in my brain right now. I feel as if my own government has abandoned it's people. Like we are trash and do not count.

[cozzene.livejournal.com]

so angry it seems that I use unnecessary contractions.

[virginia-fell.livejournal.com]

*head in hands*

I was born in that state, and for a while I was so proud of it. *scratches it off the list of places to live, for now*

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I was hopeful for Maine early. Saddened now.

osewalrus has a pretty good writeup on it.

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

...that is a very good writeup, y.

[sykii.livejournal.com]

of my gay friends who have been able to marry being in danger because they are down on government paper as officially gay
Wow. Um, thanks. That's totally what I need to be thinking about right now. That said, I don't think any of us is safe in that case, married or not. Violence find the queers just fine in Iraq without a paper trail. And if it destroys a few gender-nonconforming straights on the way, why quibble?
PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS, yo.

[sykii.livejournal.com]

"Violence finds the queers." I am obviously rattled.

[blackbird-song.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you've said here, even though I share your reluctance to catastrophize. I'm terrified for my family and friends. As I mentioned in my own post about this, California and Maine are on my boycott list for specifically revoking rights given to a minority group. The slippery slope implications are hugely ominous for all people who are or could be thus categorized, but right now the LGBTQQIA people in my life all around the country occupy the top spot in my thoughts.

Catherine

[aviv-b.livejournal.com]

Its times like this that make me embarrassed to be a straight person (and an American). What the fuck is wrong with people? I'm so sick of hearing that marriage is something sacred. In your church, yes. From the government's point of view it should only be about conferring civil rights to inheritance, child custody, health care access and the like.

As for gays degrading marriage, straight people have done a remarkably good job doing that all on their own.

Why don't we just have a civil union for everyone conferred by the state and if you want a religious 'marriage' fine go get one? Oh yeah, cause that would make sense, be fair and wouldn't demonize anyone. And goodness knows, you wouldn't want to have to recognize your fellow human being as your equal would you?

As for the Supreme Court, I'd feel a whole lot better with an additional appointee by Obama on the bench. This way too important to chance on a court that often splits five/four.

[luke-jaywalker.livejournal.com]

I absolutely agree that the state should simply get out of marriage. Government is a registrar for civil unions; marriage comes from your church or whoever. (My parents, adulthood-long atheists, had their wedding... MC'd, I suppose... by a philosophy-professor colleague of Dad's.)

RM, I wouldn't call this a disaster. It's a setback, but those happen; it's not the first and it won't be the last.

[valkyrwench.livejournal.com]

Exactly. All of it.

[glinda-w.livejournal.com]

Word. All of it.

'cause I'm in that wordless state of half-rage, half-despair.

[kaffy_r]

Fuck fuckity fuck. My husband and I kept going round and round on the same thing: this protects marriage? Our marriage has been miraculously protected from the depredations of Eeeeevil Gays for simply years now. Oh, and wait, we're not really straight, and oh, wait, we're not believers - so, y'all in Maine, do you think our marriage needs protection from us?

I fucking hate this. And don't get me started on people who say "I don't hate gays, I think they should have full equality. But marriage is for ... yadayada, they can call it something else."

No, morons. You can convince yourself that you're not haters. The most I can bring myself to say is that you may not - may not - be conscious, direct haters. But the result is just as hateful.

Fuck'em.

[roomette.livejournal.com]

I don't think you are catastrophizing. The entire situation makes me extremely nervous.

[bodlon.livejournal.com]

I am trying to temper my Maine rage with the sense of hope Kalamazoo and Washington State have conferred. Like you, though, I'm afraid of what might happen next year, or in 2 years, and so on. My whole life feels so tenuous even at the best of times -- my whole right to be -- and to see groups of people losing basic civil rights to referendum is incredibly chilling.

I hate to use this language, but this really is a battle in so many ways. It's been a battle longer than we've been alive, and it may be a battle even when we're gone. We shouldn't have to fight, but we do, and the only real reward is the hope that one day things will be better.

[thaddeusfavour.livejournal.com]

I am not at all happy with "marriage" as it stands in our society. Though straight and married, I've decided to view my "marriage" as a social and legal contract, which indeed, it is. You see, Mr. Thad and I were married by a notary public, not under the so-called authority of the church. Therefore, I proudly proclaim that my social contract to Mr. Thad has been going on for nearly 25 years.

Marriage is just that, only that. A social and legal contract. If it isn't readily available to all equally under the law, then it is discriminatory and our nation is not truly the land of the free, but the land of the only partially oppressed.

(FYI - I do believe in love as an element of marriage, as mine has been filled with it, but thankfully the government has no way yet to demand adherence to certain emotions when filling out social and legal contracts! Love, while grand, has nothing to do with the actual effects of a marriage as far as society or the courts are concerned. Let's start treating marriage as what it is.)

Short answer: I completely agree with you and share your outrage.

[laufeyette.livejournal.com]

Marriage is just that, only that. A social and legal contract. If it isn't readily available to all equally under the law, then it is discriminatory and our nation is not truly the land of the free, but the land of the only partially oppressed.

My thoughts exactly.

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

It's terrifying...

[lovefromgirl.livejournal.com]

I haven't got the words, in the end, but I have got a whole lot of feelings.

I stand with you. I am enraged and frightened with you.

[jendaby.livejournal.com]

Oh, crap. :(
I was busy all morning and just found out. That is just totally unacceptable.

Why do half the people in this country have to be such dumbasses? I wish they would just evolve and stop giving humans a bad name. Grr.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

When I read about it I nearly burst into tears.

I don't know, man, where I live I do expect things like this, from your place... somehow, for some unknowable reason, I thought it's be better this time around because of the noise made around Prop 8.

Fuck fuckity fuck.

Not that the States were ever prime immigration real estate in my mind, but chirst, just the thought of visiting there at this point in time is terrifying.

[gairid.livejournal.com]

One cannot claim to be fair-minded and still support measures which deny full equality. You either support full justice and civil rights and equality or you don't. Period. End of side-stepping and excuses. The abomination here is that the rights of a miniority can be put up for popular vote as though it were some sort of highway project.

We live in a rural area that is by and large not known for a lot of tolerance. WHen shit like this happens it gets the religious yahoos all fired up and then Debra & I feel like we need to hunker down with squirrel rifles like a couple of hard-bitten frontier women. I keep seeing people say that it will change, the old base is dying off and whathave you. Fuck that. It doen't mean a goddamn thing when you have to live around the homobigots that think it's pretty goddamn funny to terrorize the dog that belongs to 'them dykes', and when you fuck with our animals, you are most definitely fucking with us. If our immediate neighbors weren't so wonderful and protective of us, we'd be ready to just leave and suffer the loss that we'd take because of the crappy housing market. Makes me wonder why we thought it would be easier to live out here than back east. I miss Southern New England, huge rents and all.

We could give a rat's ass about marriage---we just want our rights and protections. , so yeah...fuck you, bigots.

[labellerose.livejournal.com]

In my state, Ref 71, ensuring rights for same sex partners, is passing. I'm happy about this, but also saddened.
Because nobody's human dignity should be up for a vote. Nobody's.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Also, it is a good thing, but it's also a "we didn't use the marriage word so would you please vote for it" thingy. celebrating separate but equal is not a good feeling.