Dear Torchwood Fandom,

[rm]

Dear Torchwood Fandom,

I am as much about Jack/Ianto as many of the rest of you, BUT, perhaps you have not noticed, these are two really fucked up people in fucked up circumstances with a distinctive disinclination towards monogamy.

So, can we please stop writing fics that involve Jack cooing over how adorable Ianto is? or making him breakfast in bed? Or saying "I love you" every two seconds?

BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THOSE GUYS. Even in happy ending fics (which I like), even when they are taking comfort from each other (which is probably how it evolved out of Ianto trying to get Lisa into the Hub) and even when they're in love with each other (which I can totally buy).

Ianto is both weirdly innocent and incredibly fucking devious and generally pretty at sea and FILLED WITH TRAUMA and also tough as nails. And Jack is actually out of his goddamn mind. And immortal (more or less). And a huge slut. And a very manly man. Mostly. And also, FILLED WITH TRAUMA, and I don't mean screaming girl trauma for either of them, okay?

So, please, pelase, please, people, let these characters be into each other on their own terms, not your unimaginative heteronormative romance novel crap.

Also, didn't we learn anything about sickeningly cute and character inappropriate nicknames from the Harry Potter fandom?

Thank you.

Gah. I hate new fandoms.

Comments

[chaos-by-design.livejournal.com]

Ha!

I think those are written by the same people who hate Gwen because they see her as some kind of threat to Jack/Ianto. I'm reminded of why I only read very few fanfic authors.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Jeez. The main threat to Jack/Ianto is the Rift and, well, Jack and Ianto their damn selves.

[upstart-crow.livejournal.com]

I finally googled Torchwood because everyone I know is talking about it. Does it have gay characters on it, or just a lot of hints?

[rm.livejournal.com]

Jack -- bisexual, fucking Ianto and probably a lot of other peopel as well. Lots of relationships with both genders (more men than women though) in his backstory.

Ianto -- bisexual, fucking Jack. One significant relationship with a woman in his backstory.

Owen -- mostly into women, but makes out with a guy early on in Season 1.

Gwen -- partnered to a man, makes out with a woman early on in Season 1.

Toshiko -- has a crush on Owen, also has a relationship with a woman early on in season 1.

Queerest show ever.

I couldn't help myself...

[neitherday.livejournal.com]

Re: I couldn't help myself...

[rm.livejournal.com]

lol!

[britgeekgrrl.livejournal.com]

*applauds*

Thank you.

[rm.livejournal.com]

and thank you.

Since I've not watched season 2 yet, but know that Ianto basically flirted (or more) his way into Torchwood via Jack. Do we have any information on whether he and Jack had it out about the Lisa thing during Ianto's suspenion (or later, for that matter, I guess). As I am getting something of a fic bunny myself and it's not the "oh, Jack is worried about Ianto and goes to check on him" variety, it's the "Jack calms down enough to realize he's been had and feels the needs to go over there and ask What the Fuck?" variety.

[coriander.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more. Right on.

[featherofeeling.livejournal.com]

Would you be OK if I linked to metafandom?

[rm.livejournal.com]

Please feel free. Maybe it will cause someone to lead me to the good stuff.

<lj user="metafandom"> made me do it

[x-pixel-x.livejournal.com]

AMEN. As much as I love shmoop, neither of them are really all that schmoopy, and I like it that way.

[matildabj.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom also, just to add a THANK YOU to this.

Do you write Jack/Ianto, and if so, where can I find it pls? I love your take on them.

[rm.livejournal.com]

I am in the process of writing fic for them, but nothing is done yet, because after writing this rant, I'm checking and rechecking their motivations in what I'm doing. It'll just be posted in this journal, as this is where I put all my fic (mostly HP, but also Swordspoint, Kushiel's Dart, His Dark Materials) or at least link to it.

[speshulduck.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom, and I must give you a big ole helping of WORD. I dipped a toe in the Torchwood fandom and scurried out rather quickly. There seems to be a complete and total lack of good fic -- calufrax recced an amusing Jack/Ianto fic the other day, thus far the only Torchwood fic I've enjoyed -- and if any of the people in the fandom less inclined to squee have been producing decent fanfic, I've yet to see it.

I must confess that I'm not overly surprised, though rather disappointed all the same, to find there are smooshed ship names floating around. I don't even want to know what they are either.

[rm.livejournal.com]

copperbadge writes some good stuff, but otherwise I've been striking out too.

[kiss-me-cassie.livejournal.com]

I hate new fandoms.

Ah, me too, but I loved this rant (thank you for saying it so succinctly!) and it's one of the reasons I stay far, far away from the comms.

(here via metafandom)

(metafandom too)

[kheha.livejournal.com]

Heh heh, right on. The comms have a few gems, but reading most of what gets posted is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. Not to mention the ridiculous volume. :-/

[alicambs.livejournal.com]

Do people really write fics with Jack cooing over Ianto etc.? *is mindboggled and glad to not read in TW fandom*

I'm not really a Jack/Ianto person, but I'm quite happy to see it on screen where the pair of them seem to be in to mutual and energetic fucking rather than smooching romance (you'll see what I mean in some of the later episodes of Season 2). In fact the person Jack seems to care more about than any of them, and I'd say he cares greatly for all his team, is Gwen!

[mf_luder_xf]

This reason is why I am only reading TW fics from authors I already know from other fandoms. I am simply too busy with RL and too tired of mediocre to bad fic to want to wade through it all. And Lord knows I'm not perfect when I write a fic, but frankly, none of the men I slash are the 'I Love You' types--it's part of why I like them so damn much. So I can completely agree with your statements here and I can apply them to all my other fandoms.

[triestine.livejournal.com]

Arrived via metafandom; hello!

So, can we please stop writing fics that involve Jack cooing over how adorable Ianto is?

Sorry for butting in from outside of the Torchwood fandom, but isn't writing characters the way they are not in the original one of the points of fanfiction? What I'm thinking is, original het canon : slashfic ≈ original queer canon : heteronormative slashfic. This kind of subversion does end up in writing characters back into cliches they worked hard to escape, but it's still the same mechanism.

via metafandom

[boosette.livejournal.com]

isn't writing characters the way they are not in the original one of the points of fanfiction?

It can be, but more often than not I've found that it's just pain out of character - there's a long road between Canon Point A and Fanfic Point Q, and it's frequently the stories where Points B through P are absent that can be really irritating.

(I'm not in Torchwood myself either.)

[ezust.livejournal.com]

I hate feeling as if I'm piling on, but... Also here through metafandom and just wanting to leave you a big heaping helping of WORD.

I've been really frustrated by trying to find fan fiction for this pairing (and in the fandom in general, as I'm also a big old plotty gen whore) more so than any fandom I've wanted to crack before. If it's not the "I just scribbled this down on my arm on the way home on the bus hope you like it!" type author notes, it's the complete lack of betas or the apologies for swearing, or the endless WIPs, or the eventual line where Jack falls to his knees and grasps Ianto's hand with desire burning in his eyes.

I'm getting wildly frustrated here and, though I know it's said by anyone who's been in fandom for more than a year about any new fandom that dawns on the horizon.... but MAN does TW fandom seem young!

With so much fiction being posted for the fandom, I guess I just assumed I was the only one who didn't know where to look for the superior writing.

If you have any J/I recs – or can vouch for the quality of anyone else who does recs in this fandom, please do me the great favor of sharing. I haven't wanted to read fan fic in years; I finally found a pairing that pushes my buttons and I'm left wondering who the hell is actually writing anything either adult or sophisticated enough to satisfy (elitist) me. *g*

[rm.livejournal.com]

sam_storyteller has many Torchwood fics, mostly Jack/Ianto but also mixing it up some, that are all competent and get the voices down. A few of them are truly great, in particular "Dresser" which moved the hell out of me and makes it very clear that the Jack/Ianto thing is very serious although way more twisty than just love.

[lannamichaels]

Here from metafandom. Can I also add that I wish people would stop throwing the epithet "teaboy" into every single line of dialouge? It was one line in one show, not The Only Thing Owen Harper Has Ever Said. Deal with it.

And the Gwenhate. I was so disappointed when I started looking for fic after doing a marathon watching of the first series and what had been shown of the second. I know I shouldn't be surprised anymore by this sort of thing, but it stick felt like a kick in the gut how much fans despise Gwen.

[rm.livejournal.com]

Word on teh teaboy thing. Like, just because the Torchwood writers under-write Tosh and Owne is no reason for us to do it more.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

Marry me?

As for the good stuff, please see this space. (http://del.icio.us/ros_fod/torchwood)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the rec!

[starlady38.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have to agree, about Torchwood specifically, and about fanfiction in general. Because yes, it is about characters doing stuff they're not (shown) doing in canon, but if they are not recognizably the same characters with the same motivations then it is not "fan" fiction at all, it's just fiction. And heteronormativity gets boring. Bah.

*here from metafandom*

[spoggly.livejournal.com]

Yes, thank you! I finally found an awsome sci-fi show that enthusiastically embraces queerness (and then drags it into the bedroom) and fandom hets it up. A+ character descriptions by the way.

[ms-maree.livejournal.com]

not your unimaginative heteronormative romance novel crap.

I think that type of stuff is fine, I think it's courtesy to write a warning such as 'this is romantic fluff, or this is ooc'.

And if you go into that story with that warning, then you can only blame yourself if you can't stand it.

Some people do like that particular genre.

[(Anonymous)]

Every time I see Ianto written as fuming with jealousy over Jack flirting with someone else, I want to shout GET YOUR HETERONORMATIVEY OUT OF MY FANDOM. Have these people MET Jack Harkness??

[lorem_ipsum]

Hi, here via metafandom. I *so* agree with this rant. You might be interested in my Torchwood recs. I've been collecting links for about a year.

[redscharlach.livejournal.com]

Thanks for linking to your rec list: I've already spent an hour happily clicking and will be bookmarking it for further exploration!

[starbrow.livejournal.com]

YES.

I desperately want to write Jack/Donna taking place somewhere in Series 2 of TW and I'm scared of the 'Janto' fangirls flaming me if I post it.

I like Jack/Ianto as much as the next person, but they're as bad as the Doctor/Rose batchippers.

[sevilemar.livejournal.com]

Hey, you forgot Jacks... dancing with various alien creatures (hinted at in Doctor Who and Torchwood s.1 countryside)

[alex-beecroft.livejournal.com]

LOL! I know what you mean. And the worst thing is that the TV writers have set them up in this off-beat, fascinating relationship that seems to be pretty much working. There is so much to explore in what's really going on that it seems like staring a gift horse in the mouth to wish it was more conventional. (Where conventional = one of them being the girl.)

I love the fact that one's enigmatic and the other's pathologically secretive - and they're both hard as nails. Whatever is going on, though, judging from the confident and happy Ianto of the second season, it's obviously being good for him :)

[rm.livejournal.com]

Man, this comment made me want to go write fic right now. What's so interesting is they're both people who will do whatever they think is necessary in a given situation. History shows, however, that they're likely to come to different conclusions about what that is most times.

I sympathize

[alyburns.livejournal.com]

and must drop the BUT on you (even though I hate the "But") - I'm not going to talk about the "But fanfiction is about fun" - you know that and it's not really the point here. I guess what I think is the point, is that people write fanfiction for tons of reasons and very few write it in order to keep every aspect of a show intact (which would be impossible anyway because even the show's writers seem unable to do that). In fact, I would wager that 90% write for the opposite reason. To change what they don't like, to fix what they think needs fixing and fucked up characters are, in fact, the ones we want to fix the most. :) Heck, maybe that's what fanfiction is about.

On my own angered note: I will also state that we don't have to "learn" anything from any fandom - except we all write for different reasons, we all see different things. You make it sound as if you need to fix fandoms, but I've got news for you - it ain't gonna happen. Policing - even politely - even if the complaint can be considered legitimate (which is in the eye of the beholder) - is simply - oh, forget it. Go ahead, keep writing the complaints, you have every right to rant away, but maybe just think about it first? Are you trying to police and if so, why? Probably better places and things to police than fanfiction. *grin* Me, I say it's time to police our government - not some women who write Torchwood too romantically for your taste. :)

[lokifan]

not your unimaginative heteronormative romance novel crap.

Many moons ago shaggydogstail mentioned Jack/Ianto writers treating the ship as a Great Romance and my reaction was OMGWHAT. It makes no sense to me at all. Surely it began, at least, as comfort sex?

Since I much prefer Jack/John, I've never had horrible nicknames inflicted on me, but I fear it's only a matter of time. People are going to horribly misinterpret the ironic banter about being married and inflict domesticity on a seriously fucked-up man, and then another seriously fucked-up man who's also a murdering sociopath.

This is my first open-canon telly fandom, and I am not enjoying it. So much WORD on the new fandoms; make all the thirteen-year-old bandomers go away!